not one but two moldovan territories seem intent on seeking russia's embrace. all of this while moldova pushes on with its bid tojoin the eu. my guest is moldovan foreign minister and deputy prime minister, mihai popsoi. is the ukraine war a portent of what is to come for moldova? mihai popsoi, welcome to hardtalk. my pleasure. would it be fair to say that there are increasing signs of deep political

instability inside moldova? unfortunately, that is the case, and a certain number of russian proxies are trying to destabilise the republic of moldova. and even though they're trying hard, moldovan society is resilient. we, as the government, are doing our utmost to make sure that moldova remains stable and firmly anchored into the free world. and we're carrying on with reforms, notjust muddling through, but actually achieving meaningful progress, despite the efforts on the russian side to implement all sorts of hybrid war tactics. but we remain determined to continue to stand by ukraine, to provide all the support that we can possibly provide, despite our modest means, and the russians will not succeed as long as the moldovan people will remain determined to see theirfuture in the european union. well, we'll explore those accusations you've just made against russia in some detail in a minute. butjust sticking with this idea of the resilience of the moldovan

government, it doesn't... it doesn't really look so resilient. when the prime minister, natalia gavrilita, she resigned, saying that she couldn't really handle, quote, "so many crises" caused by russian aggression in ukraine. just seems like she was worn down by this sense of crisis. well, it's only human. it takes a toll on you when you'rejuggling a refugee crisis, energy crisis, highest inflation in europe, and she did a very good job with all that. but prime ministers change. it's only normal in a democratic country. it's only in russia where the leadership doesn't change. in the republic of moldova, it does. yeah. but in terms of this sense of threat and tension, how closely do you and your government colleagues watch what is happening in the course of the war in ukraine? because, of course, right now, on the various front lines, the situation doesn't look so good for ukraine. and what we also see is that the russians have resumed their long—range attacks on odesa, on the black sea, which is, of course, part of that corridor, which, if it were ever to be

taken by russian forces, would lead them directly toward moldova. so, how closely are you watching it? we are watching it very closely, and needless to say, the level of anxiety in the country is directly proportional to the developments on the front line. and it's not an issue where russia wants to invade moldova, it's a question of whether they can. and thank god and thanks to the support... sorry, you don't doubt that there is an intent or a desire in moscow, inside the kremlin, to get russian forces into your country? well, sadly, they already have forces in the republic of moldova. they have violated our sovereignty and our territorial integrity. and this has been ongoing for the past 32 years, but... you're, of course, referring to transnistria, and we'll get to that particular enclave which claims a separate status and which, of course, you refuse to recognise. and of course, there are 1,600 or so russian troops

posted in transnistria. but i was referring more to the possibility of what we saw in february, 2022, happening to moldova. that is, a full—frontal russian invasion. is that seen as still a serious possibility in your country? it is a possibility, but it's less likely than it was two years ago. the russians are not hiding it. at various level, they have bellicose language against us, but it's not an issue whether they want, it's an issue whether they can. and thanks to the sacrifice and the courage of the ukrainian people and the ukrainian army, the russians cannot advance to our borders. and we are hopeful that with this support that is being provided, with the ukraine supplemental voted recently by us congress and signed into law by president biden, and the support that is coming from the united kingdom, and the support that is coming from the european union and the rest of the free world, ukraine will be able to reclaim the momentum, and this will also reduce the level of anxiety and the economic cost and the hardship that we feel in the

republic of moldova. what you're saying is that continued ukrainian military defiance of moscow is, in a sense, your security guarantee, for the time being. yes. but — and you've referred to it already in this interview — you are also making serious accusations about different types of warfare being waged by russia on your country. now, in february, just a couple of months back, your president, maia sandu, directly accused moscow of plotting a coup against her and your government. what evidence do you have? well, we've seen a number of attempts for certain sports—like—looking men trying to get into the republic of moldova. we've blocked them at the border repeatedly. we've also seen russian proxies, fugitive oligarchs

who are abroad but are using their network in the republic of moldova to destabilise the situation, through paying protesters, through bribing individuals in elections, through creating all sorts of instability. propaganda is a well—known avenue of russian influence, even though we've undercut their momentum by doing away with the broadcasting of russian federal tv channels in moldova. it took us a while, but now we have securitised our informational space. we are building now a strategic communications centre, modelled after the experience of our baltic friends, to be able to better respond to these attempts. but also, they're using all kinds of tactics to bring grey money into the country to fund these political proxies. that's a whole host of different things. but i am rather intrigued by this notion of some bulky—looking sportsmen caught, apprehended on your border. this is a new story to me. what exactly are you saying here? what happened ? no, there have been numerous attempts throughout this past

two years for these sort of guys to come into the country. we turn them back at the border. we don't allow them to enter... but who are they? well, they can come from different countries, but the risk profile, if they fall under the risk profile, they are turned back at the border because we are in a position where we have to make sure that even the slightest risk could turn problematic. ok, so there's the border, which you are clearly safeguarding. there are certain non—sort of tangible, less physical attacks, which you also accuse moscow of. i noticed thatjust a few days ago, the public state broadcasting company accused moscow of launching a so—called denial of service cyberattack on their output. so, are you capable of responding and defending yourselves from cyber warfare? 0ur capabilities are still modest, but we are building them together with our partners. but, yes, we are a constant target of russian attacks

on our infrastructure, notjust the public broadcaster, but also the post office. government institutions are regularly targeted by hackers, which experts attribute to russia. but we are building our resilience. we have strong partnerships, including with the united kingdom, the united states and other partners in europe to help build our defences, including in the cyber—defence sector. isn't the truth, though, that you are an extraordinarily vulnerable country? i mean, you're one of the poorest countries in europe, your defence budget is tiny, as a share of gdp. there is also a sense that you're not really that serious about defence. you've yet to get your defence spending to i% of gdp, and you well know that the nato threshold these days is at least 2% of gdp. now, you're telling me that russia presents such a grave threat to you. how come you're not spending a bit more money and taking defence a bit more seriously? well, we do. lately, we have approved

the new national security strategy, where we identified russia as the main national security threat, and we committed to i% of gdp, which is a big jump to what historically was the investment in moldova, 0.25, 0.3. now we are at 0.55, we already doubled our defence spending, and we are determined to reach i% of gdp. 2% is still very ambitious for us. but to be fair, quite a number of nato members failed to meet the 2%. in moldova, we are serious in committing our modest resources to defence. if only our predecessors, many of whom who have been pro—russian, had no incentive to invest in defence. they actually had all the incentive to maintain moldova's vulnerability. so now we have to catch up. if you and your people were really serious about defence, and withstanding what you perceive to be this grave threat from russia, wouldn't you be making a desperate attempt to join

nato as soon as possible? well, that is a very sensitive topic in moldova. only about a quarter of the population support joining nato. yeah, why is that? there are several explanations. one is moldova is a neutral state by constitution, and many find this idea soothing. nobody attacks you since you are a neutral country, right? many people have this false sense of security, and russia has been instrumental in inculcating this idea that neutrality is a guarantee of security, which, of course, we know from history is not the case, but russian propaganda has built a bogeyman image out of nato... you can blame russian propaganda, but you could flip it round and say the truth is that, as polls show, a clear majority of moldovans do not want to be members of nato, and that is because a very substantial chunk of your own population, and you pride yourselves on being a democracy, a very substantial chunk of moldovans actually have real sympathy with russia and do not share the complete commitment to a westward orientation that you and your government have. well, the absolute majority

share this commitment, because they voted for us and we have an absolute majority in parliament. and president sandu has had a landslide victory in the previous presidential election, and we'll be working hard to make sure that we retain that robust support for president sandu, for the party that i represent, and for the course, the strategic direction of european integration for our country. but it's true that it's not shared by everyone. it's only normal in a democratic country. part of it is a genuine belief of our citizens, a small minority. another part is a result of the toxic russian propaganda that our citizens have lived under for the past 30 years. but aren't you, as foreign minister, engaged in something a little bit dangerous politically right now? because, as you've just said, there is no public popular mandate forjoining nato and yet you seem to be intent, you and the defence minister, on doing deals, for example, with france, to get some important military hardware from the french government, which to many moldovans are going to look like, you know, joining the western military alliance by the back door, and you have no

mandate for that. well, this is bilateral engagements that we do. we also have a very fruitful cooperation under the nato umbrella. we just celebrated 30 years of the partnership for peace that we have with nato. that doesn't conflict in any way with our neutrality status. in fact, nato respects our neutrality status. the only country that violates this neutrality status is russia, that has consistently violated our neutrality for the past 32 years, maintaining troops and munitions in moldova, despite a commitment under the osce istanbul summit of 1999 to withdraw those troops and munitions from the republic of moldova. and our citizens support our actions in building resilience in our defence institutions, because every citizen realises, or almost everyone realises, that to have a stable country, to have an economically developed country, first, you need to guarantee security to your citizens. isn't your greatest vulnerability of all that a significant chunk of your territory —

and we referred to it earlier — transnistria, is currently run by a separatist group who look to moscow for support and who are increasingly making noises which are somewhat reminiscent of the noises being made by the separatists in eastern ukraine before the invasion of february 2022? for example, the self—styled president of transnistria, mr krasnoselsky, recently referred to a policy of genocide being applied to his territory by your government in chisinau. well, there is more noise there than actual facts. the region of the republic of moldova, the left bank of the river nistru, exports more to the european union than the rest of moldova. about 70% of everything that is produced in the transnistrian region of the republic of moldova goes to the european market...

they're desperately unhappy at the moment, because they say that you are ruining their economy. you've essentially raised tariffs for all goods going in and out of transnistria, and you've also changed your energy policy, so you're not buying cheap energy from them any more, and you're therefore not giving them the revenue. their economy is in dire straits, and that's one reason why they say they need the support of vladimir putin and russia. well, that's highly ironic, because the only person or the entity to blame for all the hardship that the entire republic of moldova is going through, including our citizens in the transnistrian region, and quite frankly, the entire region, is russia. the energy crisis that sent energy bills through the roof to everyone in the region, including in the republic of moldova, is the sole responsibility of the kremlin and the barbaric aggression against ukraine. so we are all in this boat together, we are all struggling. we are providing support to our citizens, and we'll continue to maintain stability in the transnistrian region of moldova. we have absolutely no interest in any escalation. to be honest, it's not up to you, is it? you say, "we will continue

to maintain stability." if the russians choose to decide that what they call their compatriots, and let us not forget that at least 200,000 people who live in transnistria have russian passports, if moscow chooses to say that they must act in defence of these people, what are you going to do about it? well, as long as ukraine remains resolute in being able to defend its territory, there isn't much that the russians can do. we've just discussed how... and i don't mean to be rude, but how relatively weak your military is. so i come back to the question, what can you do about it? well, at this point, the russians cannot get to the republic of moldova. the front line is relatively far away, although too close for comfort, and as long as ukraine remains capable to defend itself — and by extension, defending us — they cannot get to the republic of moldova. and we have constant contact with our citizens in the left bank and the so—called authorities in the transnistrian region to maintain stability, to provide them access

to everything they need, to make sure that we maintain peace and stability. the only solution that we see to the transnistrian conflict is a peaceful solution to the conflict. sadly for you, it's increasingly notjust about transnistria, because if we look to another territory which has autonomy and is deeply unhappy with rule from chisinau — i'm talking about gagauzia — there, the local leadership, led by evghenia gutul, are also increasingly looking to moscow for protection from what they say is the oppressive rule coming from you and your government. in fact, miss gutul has been in moscow twice this year, and putin says he is willing to help her. well, it's not clear what is more shameful — for her to have a picture with a murderous dictator orfor him to have a picture with the person who basically stole the election and was virtually unknown a few weeks

ago, before the election, and with money from russia. the oligarch that was convicted in moldova to 15 years in prison by the court of appeals, who is now apparently in russia, is trying to create this instability to rattle the situation in the republic of moldova. but our citizens, both in gagauzia autonomy and in the rest of the republic of moldova, they want stability. they don't want to be part of this foreign efforts to destabilise the situation and to have us hostages of their plans to promote a pro—russian government in moldova, to stab ukraine in the back, nobody wants that. but in a sense, as we go through this litany of problems you've got, aren't all of these signs of your weakness? you've just referred to the backer of ms gutul in gagauzia, ilan shor is the man you're talking about now. now, he's an extremely rich businessman who stands accused of significant, serious fraud in your country. he left the country. he, of course, denies

the allegations, but he now faces very serious charges. he went to israel, he's been seen in moscow recently. we know that he backs miss gutul, but we also know he has a lot of supporters inside moldova who are politically active. you tried to get the courts to ban those politicians. the court, the significant senior court in moldova, has said no, these people do have a right to political activism. so ilan shor, with all of his money, remains a massive problem to you. well, he's certainly a national security threat, when it comes to the peace and stability and the strategic direction of the republic of moldova to anchor itself into the free world. he is a proxy of the kremlin. well, so you say. well, that's clear for everyone who has eyes to see and ears to listen, it's obvious, and the fact that he's hiding now there, having been convicted in the republic

of moldova, it's certainly adding insult to injury that he is spending the money that he stole from the citizens of the republic of moldova, leaving them poorer. and, in fact, the kremlin is doing the same, is instrumentalising and weaponising the poverty and the misery that they have themselves created via the energy crisis, via the war in ukraine, to create and to install a pro—russian government. but moldovan citizens know better than that. right, but here you are sitting with me in london, having just visited lord cameron, the british foreign secretary, trying to convince all of europe that there is both stability in moldova and an absolute commitment to push ahead on the path to eu membership. you've got your candidate status, accession talks are to begin formally later this year. but how on earth can you expect the eu to fully embrace you as a member of the european union, when we'vejust gone through all of the problems — transnistria, perhaps gagauzia as well, but also your claim that the russians are meddling inside your politics to the extent they are? how can the eu take you on as a member?

well, i'm going to open a secret. the russians are meddling everywhere. they are meddling in countries that have a lot more robust defences than we do. that's the point. but we are improving our capabilities, and in fact, moldova now is a lot more resilient than it was two years ago. so these russian hybrid attacks are, if i may, somewhat of a blessing in disguise, because they are pushing us to be more resilient, to invest more in our defences, to build our capabilities in cyber, to securitise our informational space, to diversify our energy sector. we are no longer dependent on gazprom for gas, which is remarkable, given that two years ago, this seemed an insurmountable task. i've noted the very significant changes you've made in the last few years, as you get yourselves ready for those formal accession talks. i see it. but the bottom line is you still have 1,600 russian troops on your territory. that is a volatile situation which the eu is hardly going to embrace, is it?

i mean, in those circu... unless you sort that out, how can you have a realistic hope of eu membership? well, we certainly have a realistic hope and our partners in europe are clear that the resolution of the conflict is not a precondition forjoining. and we appreciate that, because otherwise that would provide leverage to the kremlin to use this against us in the process of accession. but we do understand that this is a problem and the pull factor of eu accession on the opportunities that the single market provides, taking into account that the transnistrian region already exports 70% of the goods and services it produces to the european union, this is an enormous opportunity. the single market access is a very strong pull factor... i would just say, though, if i may interrupt, sorry to interrupt, but a guy who used to do yourjob as a former deputy pm, vasili sova, in moldova, he said, theoretically, entry into the eu with an unresolved conflict like transnistria is possible, but, he added, there is unlikely to be a consensus amongst eu member states as long as this situation continues. that's the reality.

well, so far, the consensus is that moldova was granted candidacy status, and we are now awaiting the intergovernmental conference in june, which will require also consensus. moldova is widely supported in the european parliament across party families, moldova is not controversial. everybody is supporting the republic of moldova, despite the challenges that we have, the commitment to reform and to improvement and to building resilience and to building democratic institutions in moldova. our partners see that, and we are met with reciprocity. isn't the biggest problem of all that, as i said before, you're one of the poorest countries in europe? your gdp per capita is less than $8,000. you've got a falling population, you've got a demographic crisis. you are vulnerable in so many different ways. and as long as that's the case, russia can continue to exploit your vulnerability. they certainly try, and it's our responsibility to make sure that they don't succeed, and with the support of our friends and partners in the international community,

we are continuously building capabilities in moldova across sectors. and as i mentioned earlier, moldova now is more resilient and stronger and better positioned than it was two or three years ago. and the more we invest in our defence capabilities and defence largely speaking, in security, internal affairs, intelligence and societal resilience, the more we also engage with our citizens in explaining this negative effect of russian aggression in ukraine and how that affects us, and how russia holding us hostage for the past 32 years with support for the separatist enclave in the transnistrian region has affected us negatively. once more and more citizens are aware of that, then this also builds this national unity and support for european integration in moldova. mihai popsoi, we have to end there. i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thanks. thank you.

hello. we had two different types of weather across the uk on sunday. many areas stayed quite cloudy, and with the cloud came the threat of showers or some lengthier outbreaks of rain, like here in cornwall. but it wasn't like that everywhere. across the north of wales, parts of northern england, across the midlands and east anglia, well, there was extensive sunshine. a beautiful satellite picture. a curl of cloud down towards the south—west, an area of low pressure throwing a band of rain and showers in from the south—west. it stayed cloudy for scotland, northern ireland and the far north of england. in the cloud, temperatures reached 12 degrees for some in the south—west, but contrast that with the warm sunshine. parts of east anglia and suffolk a saw top temperature of 20. and i suppose bank holiday monday is going to be a similar

kind of day, chasing around those different areas of cloud. many areas will keep a lot of cloud, and i suppose one big difference is, as we go through monday afternoon, bank holiday of course, showers are going to develop. they're going to be much more widespread and tend to be heavier, so there's a greater risk of seeing thunderstorms develop. probably the best of the sunshine across parts of northern england, wales, the midlands and perhaps into norfolk as well. there could be longer outbreaks of rain working into south east england, and the rain could be slow to clear here through monday night as well. it will be a relatively mild night. where we keep the cloud, temperatures around 8 to 10 degrees celsius heading into tuesday. now, we'll begin to see a change in our weather patterns from tuesday as an area of high pressure starts to move in from the west. now, it's not the strongest area of high pressure, and on tuesday, there will still be areas of cloud around, still the threat of a few afternoon showers

across western areas, but they won't be as heavy, they won't be as extensive, many areas will stay dry with some bright or sunny spells breaking through the cloud. there's a trend for the weather to get a little bit warmer across england and wales through tuesday, more of us seeing temperatures into the high teens to low 20s. but where the cloud sticks, temperatures probably about 12 to 1a degrees. the high pressure builds in a bit more on wednesday, but it's not strong enough to keep this weather system at bay, and so, across scotland, through wednesday, we'll see cloud thicken up with outbreaks of rain arriving initially across the hebrides before spreading into the highlands, 0rkney and shetland late in the day with strengthening south—westerly winds. now, away from that, for northern ireland, england and wales, it's a predominantly fine day. there'll be some areas of high cloud in the sky, so sunshine is likely to be hazy, but it will be quite pleasant in that sunshine, temperatures 17 to 20 degrees quite widely. for thursday, the dregs of the weather system in scotland will continue to feed in a few showers but, overall, it's a brighter day. for northern ireland, england and wales, again, it should be dry with some lengthy spells of hazy sunshine. it's getting warmer — 18 degrees in belfast, 19 for newcastle, but quite widely, central and eastern

england sees those temperatures run into the low 20s, which will feel pleasantly warm. friday, we get another weak weather system moving into scotland threatening further outbreaks of rain, and that system could also bring a few showers into northern england. away from that, further southwards, for much of wales, midlands, east anglia, southern england and northern ireland, this should be a dry day with sunny spells. now, beyond that, high pressure is going to re—establish, rebuild to the north of the uk and for the following weekend, it should be largely dry, sunny and pretty warm, with temperatures climbing widely into the upper teens to low 20s. so loads of showers to start the week but there's a trend for the weather to become more settled and quite a bit warmer as well.

live from london, this is bbc news. chinese president xijinping arrives in france, the first leg of his european tour. it's his first visit to the continent in five years. israel has launched air strikes on rafah in southern gaza after a hamas attack from the area killed three soldiers. john swinney�*s expected to be confirmed as the new leader of the scottish national party later after a potential challenger pulls out

of the race. and the wait is almost over for the world's largest television event as this year's eurovision contestants shine in style with malmo aiming to put on a spectacular opening. hello, i'm tadhg enright. welcome to the programme. china's president xijinping is in france on his first state visit to europe in five years with the war in ukraine and trade with the eu expected to dominate the agenda. president xi will hold talks with french president emmanuel macron and european commission president ursula von der leyen in paris on monday. in an article for the french newspaper le figaro, xi said he intended to work with france and the entire international community to uphold "world peace "and stability". 0n the war in ukraine,

he wrote: