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number.com i'm more than liebermann at the pentagon. and this cnn welcome to our special i've read your former president trump's historic hush money criminal trial. >> i'm briana keeler in washington, phil mattingly is outside of court in new york where phil here on day seven of testimony, jurors were hearing from one of the most trusted members of trump's inner circle, hope hicks, of course, who was both a top aide on his 26th it's team campaign. and in the white house when he was president and court of course now fill is just taking a lunch break, just getting started yeah that's right. briana. but there have been a number of really critical moments over the course of the last several hours, we know who picks, had several phone calls with michael cohen, the trump lawyer who silhouetted the stormy daniels payment in the closing weeks of the 2016 campaign. and

we know from a prior witness, hicks was on a called discussing the karen mcdougal payment? after trump took office when hicks was then a white house official, cnn chief legal affairs correspondent. paul read is with me now, some dramatic testimony is definitely wanted so witnesses that everybody was waiting to hear from set people up from what we heard so far, what we're kind of big moments for you, i think this has been the most significant witness so far. >> for many reasons. one, even though opaque is not directly involved in any of the alleged criminal conduct, she was at trump's sayyed througout really all the events leading up to to this alleged falsifying business records. >> she's also a very reliable narrator. >> she doesn't have an ax to grind with trump's. she's also not like david pecker is now a tabloid king or like keith davidson, someone who's involved in what may or may not be extortion of celebrities as a career. submit jurors are really listening to everything she had that's to say. and even though she doesn't recall some of the meetings that other people have testified to, like david pecker testified she was

in and out of that critical 2015 meeting. she says she doesn't necessarily remember that. she certainly remembers the impact of the access hollywood tape on the campaign that's something she's talked a lot about as we're inching closer and closer to election day this has been, i think the most significant testimony so far. i'm not saying which sayyed helps, but this is someone the jury can listen to and trust on the access hollywood tape. >> they played tape. we all i feel like it was a flashback. everyone was thinking about where they were when this hit. if you were covering that campaign, are covering the 2016 election. >> but the import for the prosecutors here in that tape playing that tape and getting where hopes pope picks was and what she saw, why the reason the access hollywood tape is so critical is because prosecutors will argue that once that came now the campaign was in free fall. >> she testified that there were quote, in crisis. you read books or other people who were involved in the campaign. they talked about nuclear bomb going off many of them even considered jumping ship. it speaks to the enormous pressure on then candidate trump to

suppress any other stories particularly about elicit behavior here towards women, which incentivizes them, right? to try to pay stormy daniels to go away. also, incentivize the stormy daniels to push for money. but that's why the tape is so critical because prosecutors are going to see a look at what the campaign was facing. clearly the money that was paid to stormy daniels, it wasn't just about his family if it was about his family at all. this was to give him some glimmer of hope for taking the white house. yeah. underscores that moment from the keith davidson testimony before the cross-examination, where he made clear there's no market for the stormy daniels story before the access hollywood tape. >> and that was the moment they felt like they could really push that forward. what are we expect like clearly they're moving towards something here. you know, the story and he's prosecutors better at anyway what are they moving toward? >> what's going to be fascinating is to see they're gonna get through election day. we obviously know he he wins. but then she's going to be able to take us into 2017 course these documents were allegedly falsified. she's going to be able to talk about trump's relationship with

michael cohen. any mention of stormy daniels the fact that she and sarah huckabee sanders where allegedly in touch with david pecker about extending karen mcdougal's catch and kill agreement. she's going to be able to take us into the year 2017, which so far sorry, something no witness has really been able to do in any substantive way, unless really surprising. because again, the alleged crime is falsifying business records. so the fact that we're on day 11 and we haven't gotten to the winter are 2017, it's notable, so she's going to take us there and that's really what i'm watching and waiting for what happened is wearing when we're in the white house, do you hear? for anything else about this this hush money to her? the hush money to karen mcdougal. what's going on with michael cohen and trump? what's the relationship there? how involved? trump in his business? because of course, michael cohen was paid back right through the trump organization. so i think that's all potentially very critical. and the first time the jury will hear about the actual time in question for this falsified documents, and that's because it's coming from somebody that most people

just haven't heard from at all. now everybody seems to know if he followed the trump campaign in 2016, you follow the trouble white house you know about hope hicks, you know, what people have said about who picks, never really heard from hope hicks. she's testified in numerous cases when she's been compelled to do so walk through, how important this moment is for her as somebody who is not broken from trump has not spoken out, is not written a book because not gotten a cable contract. >> yeah. they don't have the same relationship that they did after january 6, there was fallout because of text messages she said on that day suggesting that they were now also complicit in domestic terrorism. >> but it's reminder, right everyone, right. in trump's radius, it seems eventually winds up testifying in a court of law before congress or themselves, being indicted. and the enormous to impact that his conduct has on the people around him. and it was a very human moment when she got to the microphone and she said, i'm really nervous. i mean, imagine you have this strange former boss and when you were very close to she also hasn't looked at him, which i think it

also speaks to just how difficult this is for her. but i think it's really it's very telling of how difficult this since for most people to be involved in a case like this, clearly keith davidson made a career of it. so to david pecker, but a lot of these other folks, they don't necessarily want to be here and certainly she doesn't so she's only testifying under subpoena. >> yeah. >> it's good. reminder. we talked about this when there were select the jury, just the stakes and the enormity of the moment for a normal human being hoping is it all in the last eight years it's still for her sake several times she was nervous. all right. well, we'll get back with you shortly. briana all right. >> phil. thank you so much for that. let's bring in our panel here, elie honig starting with you, biggest takeaways so far of this hope hicks testimony so what picks is a very powerful witness so far, we always have to say so far we're not even in the cross-examination for the prosecution on one specific point, which is that after the access hollywood tape dropped, the trump campaign was in a panic. >> they were damaged control mode, they were terrified about what this would do to the campaign and what this does is it sets up prosecutors to argue

when the stormy daniel's accusation surface right after that. the campaign donald trump had every reason to want to silence her because of the campaign hope hicks, it strikes me as a very credible witness. she doesn't have a bias for or against donald trump. it seems like both sides see her as a truth teller, but what both sides are going to try to do is pull out pieces of her testimony that are favorable. so to me, a strong witness for the prosecution, but also not the whole ballgame. there's much more to the crime that they're so i have to prove through other sources, but she's really powerful, just one point. >> does it also speak to how when there was a big situation or crisis, donald trump was not hands-off. >> yeah, very important point because one of the key conflicts about this case is was donald trump hands-on micro-manager involved or was he sort of at 30,000 feet letting his people do their jobs when it comes to negative press around the campaign, he's very hands-on as hope hicks, a testimony as establishing also michael cohen's involved which is relevant as well because

prosecution wants to say michael cole was right in the middle of all this. >> i want to go quickly to anderson cooper, who just got out a court cord, of course, has taken a break. the jury had left the courtroom there so they could go on their lunch break. anderson, you have been there all this time today watching tell us about your observations what was fascinating to see hope hicks coming out obviously, the test good morning before that was a little bit more more mundane talking about documents, talking about emails. >> but when hope hicks came in in you could feel sort of the electricity in the room. certainly, people were perking up she seemed very nervous when she first came out on the stand and very hesitant. she did not look at directly at donald trump as she walked by him. it wasn't clear to me whether he looked at her. i don't think he did but i couldn't see from my vantage point, but she did not look at him. she went right to

the stand. >> there were some she was a little bit away from the microphone and part of that may have been a nervousness, but also once she actually got closer to the microphone, i and she could actually hear herself. >> she said she she commented the jury that now we was eating easier for her and she's certainly seemed more confident after that. she's certainly been came off, i think is very respectful. full credible. certainly reticent. she's they're under a subpoena which was made clear when she first sat down, she clearly is not giving elaborate answers. she's giving the very basic answers and she did seem to downplay a little bit or search for how to describe the image to all point earlier, how to describe the impact the bombshell impact that the access hollywood tape head on the campaign she kept turning to the word no, i she was concerned are very concerned, but sort of intimating that there was it was that was just

one word she was kinda landing on, but there it was a huge concern. certainly that she had and maybe even more than that. >> yeah, because as she mentioned, anderson, it had kicked a big storm, right a big storm out of the news. she said for 36 hours if trump yeah and she was also then questioned about the actual fate which i happen to be the co-moderator of and it was interesting to hear her. >> the question two from the prosecutor was no what was this brought up? the debate. hope hicks says yes, at some point it was. and then the mater than the prosecutor said, was it brought up? do you remember when it was brought up and she's who pick said she thought it was one of the first questions. it actually was the very first question i asked that question. but it was interesting to hear the importance suddenly now of sort of ends asking that question. again as nothing there

indication of just how big a deal this was because i can tell you from the debate preparation that we were doing friday when that access hollywood tape came out all the debate preparation we had done up to that point everything changed after the access hollywood tape came out and it was a big question of are we going to lead off the debate? i mean, there was really no good that we knew friday as soon as that tape came out, that would be the leaf question in the debate. >> yeah, it is a rare story like that, that has this seismic i you. feel about it. it did at the time i remember going on air myself and before we actually had the tape and we just had the transcript of what was said it was pretty stunning. and so i think it really speaks anderson even though she's talking about being concerned and sort of landing on that word, there's really no escaping, just how big i'm a moment. this was for trump no doubt about it. >> and clearly, as soon as she received the question from from the reporter about the

existence of this tape from then on. i mean, that dominated the campaign four days after and probably even longer, but certainly for friday, that saturday, sunday was the debate they were reeling and trying to figure out exactly what this meant and what the impact of it would be in anderson, can you get a sense of how trump is reacting to some of these moments that he's hearing. >> we understand from hope hicks it's they haven't spoken in some time, but clearly she is trying to speak very positively of the former president. what is his reaction it's very hard to see from the vantage point that there were at them. >> you can see on the monitor, but it's been somewhat for some people actually have binoculars in the audience who are watching some the the court sonography at excuse me cord artists. and also even some of the reporters covering it i couldn't see his face while at hope hicks was testifying. i

could see him whispering so todd blanche, or to a meal beauvais they definitely there's a lot of communication between all three of them there on the stand. there was a recess at one point plane in which the former president has stood up surveyed the crowd to see who was, who was there. but he doesn't give much reaction in the actual courtroom release? not that i can see today what was her demeanor like? >> because we see the transcript essentially in the descriptions of what she he's saying, but i understand that she's sort of had a she's been laughing at some moments. what did you see yeah. >> i mean, she came in very sort of hesitantly. it appears she came in with an attorney the attorney said that in the galley as she went up to the stand by herself, she she she definitely seem very nervous and she even said she was very nervous to that she spoke to the jury saying that she was very nervous. she definitely

seemed to kind of relax into it a little bit more. but she she was very cautious, i think, and careful in the words that she she used while on the stand, there wasn't a lot of yeah sure wasn't extrapolating. she wasn't elaborating on things. she she tried to kind of i think she was being very careful in what she said and, i understand anderson, i saw that trump greeted you as he entered court. what can you say about that honestly, i did not see that somebody told me that i was turning it turned away. >> i did not know that he come in the room so we we i saw him looking at me once during the break, but i did not communicate with him directly. it didn't feel it was appropriate very interesting moment. >> nonetheless, anderson. thank you so much for your

observations as you've been the eyes and ears there in court, we're of course, we do not have cameras anderson cooper. thank you. and coming up, we have so much here to dig into. we just heard obviously a lot of details about what it was like inside of the courtroom. we have our special coverage of the historic first criminal trial of former president from continuing ahead every piece of evidence tells a story. how would really happen? jesse l. martin, sunday's at nine on cnn you're calling some people find there's at an early age others later in life no matter when you find it, you consider yourself lucky because it becomes your everything are calling was to build trucks and that's why trucks are what we do we put our everything in every truck. so that when you find your calling nothing can

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melt. we've seen a statement from the congressman, i believe. i don't know that we've seen they actual indictment. what do we know about these charges? >> well, the nature of the charges are still unclear at this moment. it has not been made public, but what we do know is that both the congress and his wife are expected to be indicted by the doj later today, and the congressman he is expected to appear in court in texas later this afternoon. this development was first reported by nbc and confirmed by my colleague, haley talbot. >> now we also know that the fbi did raid his home. >> as you mentioned, and his campaign office back in january of 2020 be two again, unclear if that rate is in debt related to the indictment today, but quiere says he is innocent. let me just read you quickly. part of his statement. he said, i want to be clear that both my wife and i are innocent of these allegations. everything i've done in congress has been to serve the people of south texas. the actions i took in congress were consistent with the actions of many of my colleagues. and in the interests of the american people. now, he goes on to say that proactively sought advice

from the house ethics committee here on capitol hill, as well as the national law firm. >> and he also said that he tried to seek out federal prosecutors to try to explain the facts and he is sad i'd of the story, but he said they were not interested in discussing the case. >> now, it's unclear what this will mean for query are politically he is a moderate democrat who represents a very important he district along the southern border. and he has represented that seat for nearly 20 years, but he maintains that he will continue to run and that he insists that he will when in november, fill all right. >> nothing like breaking news on a friday on capitol hill when both chambers out of session melt. we appreciate you scrambling. keep this post. it is more. we learn more. briana mega all right, phil, so back now to the latest on former president trump's criminal trial in new york or panel is back with us here and something very interesting, adi, that you were bringing up in the break, which is about hope hicks is legal representation right? which is that it's not paid for by trump board necessarily

a super pac or anything like that. and i think that that has always been a little bit of a question from me with witnesses people are also describing the relationship as being a lot cooler than it was. and the nodes from our courtroom team or a lot about how they are not looking at each other, the way they were not interacting and i think this is remarkable given the role she had in his life leading up to this point i think she's also important on the mcdougal story i mean, she she called michael cohen testified that she called michael cohen about this and it explains, i think the panic we saw when david pecker testified the panic that michael cohen had when he was trying to deal with the financing for mcdougal and when we heard from the banker about how panicked he was. >> so you see this this chain of events where she calls

michael cohen like was this real what do we do about this? then he sort of tried to toss it off. he was not truthful to her or so she testified and then we see it from the other point of view through pecker and the banker that davidson and actually that he becomes. so then lawyer the lawyer to both of the wind and mcdougal that he becomes increasingly panicked and now we know why this, you knew this story was going to come out and she was asking him questions about it. she also said that she has donald trump about it. i don't know what he said. >> the real sense of what the kind of press war room is yeah, for trump during that period, which for reporters a little bit opaque, like people are texting you. maybe they say it's not a big deal, they deny it. maybe it is, maybe it's not, but now you're seeing how they scurried around, but they really we did think that these stories about women would be a

problem, especially in the cumulative and that they thought they could reach out to say the wall street journal to sit to buy some time they were pulling on every media relationship that he had. and it gives you a real glimpse into how they approach these things up until this point, we've got a fairly clear view, but from outsiders, it should look like the campaign was worried logically, they would have been worried. now we're getting the real inside and beyond worry their panic then, just to understand how this fits into the case prosecute, it's not a crime to be worried, it's not a crime to be in panic mode is not a crime to pay hush money. prosecutors have to prove the reason they paid stormy daniels was to benefit the campaign that's part of what they have to prove. they also have to prove that the documents were falsified. hope hicks, those nothing about that nor would she or shouldn't you know, anything about so this is an example of i think a powerful productive witness for the prosecution, but also fairly limited in what she does. she give them one important building block, but it's not as if this is the smoking this is the witness case over

prosecutors when but she's an important piece of the puzzle because it goes to this issue of intent. yes. which is so important. and also that this wasn't just donald trump trying to protect his family from or being found out by his family about what may have been going on it was about something bigger and it was the political gain or really trying to stem any kind of loss. >> and a natural question that the jury will likely have. and probably our viewers have is well, what if there was so sort of mixed voted, he could not going to be able to put a number on it. but what if trump was 80% concerned about the campaign in 20% concerned about his wife and his family. the answer under the law, it doesn't have to be 100% prosecutors have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is substantial motivating factor was the campaign it and i think if i can editorialize or give us some subjective view, i think prosecutors have made that part of the case. almost beyond any question. and how could the campaign in october of 2016 not have been a substantial factor in why they wanted to silence stormy

daniels and karen mcdougal and donald trump. >> when your campaign is in panic mode and you're the candidate today urine panic mode, or maybe it goes the other way around. >> you set the tone. and when you see that donald trump is concerned about it, then then the campaign is concerned about it. and she said she knew immediately that this was going to be a huge story and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out and they were trying to figure out how to deal with it. and then the notion that she's calling michael cohen, who earlier she said she wasn't sure what his role was and he didn't have any role in the campaign. he was a reflexive phone call because she knew if anyone knew about these things, it would be michael, it would be michael cohen. yeah, so much more ahead if everyone can standby for me what judge juan merchan started court today by explaining to the former president that a gag order does not prevent him from testifying something that he has claimed. we're going to talk more about that. when are special coverage

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it today, go chu pretty litter, closed captioning, bronchi by meso book.com if you or a loved one have mesothelial, will send you a free book to answer questions you may have called and we'll come to you 808 to one 4,000 welcome back, judge. juan merchan has yet to rule if donald trump further violated the gag order in his criminal trial. in the meantime, the former president, while he continues to lambaste those restrictions, here was after court yesterday well, i'm not allowed to test if i am under again i can testify now we're

gonna be appealing the gate i love to answer their question is very easy question. the easiest questions so far but i'm not allowed to testify, persist, judge, who's totally conflicted as be under an unconstitutional gag order know that, of course is not true. >> it's so untrue that this morning for chord, donald trump corrected himself saying the gag order won't stop him from testifying. and that it's not quote, for testifying, then moments later in court, judge merchan told trump directly this quote, the order restricting extra-judicial statements does not prevent you from testifying in any way. it does not prohibit you from taking the stand and it does not limit or minimize what you can say. joining me now is george grassy, who was a new york criminal court judge for more than a dozen years. you're in court. this morning judge i want to start from where judgment shawn came from this morning. why do you think he felt the need to make that clarification who.

>> is crucial? i mean, my my sense when i heard it is that this is just my sense of it is maybe the judge picked up on and maybe it was brought to his attention somehow that either mr. trump or his legal team were asserting that because of the gag order and the consequences is that trump found i've found himself in with the nine citations of violating it that somehow they might have the judge might have thought they were trying to extrapolate it to applying one. and if donald trump, defendant trump decided to testify. so the drugs justice this came right out of the box. he couldn't have made a clearer or more direct record that the gag order has absolutely nothing to do with the testimony of this defendant. should the defendant decided to testify he can speak to michael cohen. he can speak to stormy

daniel's. he can pretty he can say with every thinks is in his interest to testify, too. so for whatever reason, the judge thought it was appropriate to make that record. he made a strong record and i think he took it the way is a possible appeal issue down the road. should the jury ultimately a jury of 12 convict donald trump can i ask you? queer self and judge, machines, shoes or fair or robe as it is. >> are you watching? >> is he watching what the former president says? after core, what he says coming into core, what he's posting on truth social, is that necessary to do the job? would you be doing that if you were in that position would i, be doing what watching what trump was saying outside of court is asked the question, well, to the extent yes, sir. >> while he was saying outside of court would would make witnesses feel insecure or unsafe, would certainly would

make jurors it's feel unsecure unsafe. i absolutely would be all over it in any case especially if you have a case of someone who's a former president in the united states he's right now a leading candidate to get the republican nomination in that context. he puts out a social media post any brags about this tens of millions of people become aware overnight furthermore, or less than overnight within moments we have seen incidents where people have been doxed, people have been harassed, people have been threatened based upon negative postings from this defendant so how that applies in this specific courtroom with this jury in these witnesses that the judge cannot sit back and not use the tools of new york state law it's given him to maintain a fair and balanced trial. so in that context, i think the judge would have been remiss if he hasn't taken the

steps he's taken, but none that absolutely none of that would apply should jonelle, donald trump take the oath and take the stand in his own defense, like think the judge the judge judge merchan was right? right on target. i'm making that point on clear on the record today yeah. it was a critical move, i think all of us in the moment civil, that's not true. group of making that very clear from the venture is very important to ensure george grass, who has been in the courtroom, felt the course today. we appreciate your time, sir. thank you if it's not on the record here, they didn't happen as far as remember, that's good for reporters to come up next stokoe anywhere are special coverage continues right after this did you know there's no tie skechers what he told about he has always been scheduled see in these sketches, slippery these sketches slip in are pretty who isn't as good wrong.

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nsultation. again, that's 1807123800. >> i'm kevin lip ttac at the white house. and this is cnn we are waiting more testimony from former trump aid, hope hicks before the break, hicks

testified that trump was concern that reports of sexual misconduct in 2016 would hurt his standing with voters ahead of the election. >> now, eight years later, some of those sexual allegations are at the center. sure. >> of donald trump's criminal trial. does he have the same concerns? and if not, should he let's talk now with republican pollster and communication strategies, fragrance, frank, i wonder, does this help or hurt donald trump when you are relitigate some of the most difficult moments, most challenging moments of his 2016 campaign. during his third run for the presidency. >> that's exactly what people are asking. and it's not really clear at this moment. it's going to depend on how the questions are answered, how it's picked up by the press, and what the president says at the end of each of these sessions, because in the end, he's the most important commentator i've said this repeatedly. the donald trump, every time he is attacked,

every time he faces one of these trials are something that would destroy any other candidate for trump. his numbers go up what people look prove with him because they see him as being a victim. now, that said he's also the most self-destructive candidate that i've ever seen in presidential politics. they go to have a fantastic de, in court. >> and then destroy it by a couple of poorly placed sentences as he does his own commentary i'm not talking the question. >> we just don't know at this moment while we do know is that trump has a lead, a very narrow one. >> and then the key swing states so far, this trial has done nothing to damage is at least being tied with joe biden, if not being a percent or to ahead. so looking at that and the role that he plays for himself as his own messenger and these answers may be different legally and politically, but politically. do you think there's a case for him to take the stand? >> well, he actually i think he

did something very foolish by saying that he was being prevented from taking the stand, how it's unfair. now, the judge clarified it. he clarified it that donald trump clarify that. now in almost puts pressure on him if he's gonna raise such a fuss. about not being allowed to speak. then when given the right to speak and he chooses not to if that's the case, then i think it does hurt his credibility in the end, the only thing that will truly have a marked impact on his support, on his vote is if he is found guilty, then quite frankly, we really don't know what the impact of that will be. but we do know that that would be the most significant moment of this trial because an increasing number of those polled say the hush money charges are irrelevant. to trump's fitness for the presidency, 45% compared with 39% last summer before trump me the presumptive nominee. what do you make of that increasing apathy? toward

these charges it's because we've gotten used to it by now that there's nothing special americans won a second act, a third act, they want a great close it's the same thing as a tv show or movie of play and we've seen this in the same play, keith from playing again and again, and nothing ever changes. >> and i listened to the biden campaign get more and more desperate the fact is, we have already baked this into our understanding of what's going on and you look at it and you have to wander, know president has ever sat in a courtroom like this. no president has ever been charged with felonies and yet he continues to again, either be tied or a couple of points ahead. and i've heard nothing in the trial up to this point is suggest that anything is going to change. i want to emphasize this is probably the weakest case probably the case that the public cares the least about, because it really has nothing to do with his

presidency. the other cases probably won't get hurt in time for election day. we are once again in uncharted territory a place that i never would've believed when i would be talking about right now. >> well, we know frank that you will be looking to see the impact of this trial, obviously we're not that far into it, so we have to wait and see what the impact is. frank. thank you so much, really appreciate it and court is now close to resuming from i'm at lunch break, former trump aid hope hicks will be back on the stand with more testimony and our special coverage will continue he estimated helps us motivate our students accustomed gear we love how customer takes care of everything we need, so we can focus on the kids customer has hundreds of products to help you feel connected. upload your logo, or start your design today had custom make.com. yeah. >> your worst nightmare, your car broke down. now you're worried if it's going to cost you a fortune and repair bills

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week of testimony in the trump hush money trial. >> we're following the minute-by-minute updates coming from inside the new york courtroom. court is in break. they will resume here in just a few minutes as we understand it and we're back now with our panel to talk about what is ahead and elie, we're keeping an eye, obviously on hope hicks coming back on the stand but also there's a question of who the prosecution may be bringing are who they may consider bringing and the benefit or lack thereof, karen mcdougal or stormy daniels, what do you think? >> i think both of those are potential witnesses. the prosecution? >> we couldn't bring, but i don't know that they have to. >> in fact, i know that they do not have to bring them and my calculation, if i was a prosecutor right now would be they're not going to know anything beyond what the witnesses already know about the payoff. they a weird heard from the lawyer keith davidson, who represents senate both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. we heard about it from the ami national enquirer perspective, from david pecker,

we will hear about it from michael cohen's perspective. the reason you might want to call stormy daniels or karen mcdougal, one or both of them is i believe based on having seen them in public and seeing their interviews with anderson cooper and others. i think they're likable and person so in a bowl and a better face to put on this story then, for example, keith davidson, why think wait quite poorly for prosecutors. so you may want them thinking about the client, the stormy daniel's or karen mcdougal, not so much the sort of to put it bluntly, sleazy lawyer who i think came across as such on gross yeah. >> keith davidson, they sort of trump's lawyers were able to raise the specter of was this it's basically just extortion borderline shakedowns and took 45% of the money for himself to accuse these women of being extortionists. that's a question if they're likable and they come across well, and then what the defense is going to say as well, you're just you were just shaking down donald trump. >> that'll definitely be it. but i would rather there have probably stormy daniels

responding to that, then what we saw from keith davidson, i wonder adi we've heard so much testimony over several days and i wonder what you think about the picture as a narrative, as a story being told to the jury. if you think it is something that is confusing, or if you think it is something that is compelling, well, as a person who's not a legal person, i actually have more clarity than i did at the start of this case when people would try to explain to to me why this is an election interference case, why bragg felt like he could elevate these charges to a felony. i was constantly trying to explain it to friends and family. i think now the public has a much better sense because so much of this testimony has been in the context of the campaign. >> and remember, we're asking people to do a lot were like, hey, remember her time when people cared about sex scandals. >> think, think back to that time and how worried you might have been point? yes. so quaint. and now, when we're a

dozen scandals pass this, it feels this whole thing has brought us back to that time of like what that's pretty culture was like with the tabloid culture was like. and what this cd little world was underneath, where people who try to manipulate the information that was out there there's one thing people do understand about donald trump. he cares how he is seen. he cares how he is talked about in the media, and someone like hope hicks getting on dollar will direct us into how that works. he's not managed by some war room of comms professionals, i think has been really intriguing. >> i'm glad you bring it up as not illegal person this jury, they are not people of the legal persuasion, but they are people who are used to hearing a story. they'll have to take that and compare it to what they are asked of. is he breaking the law? did he break the law from the legal perspective, taking that narrative and transforming it into legal requirements to

lawyers on this jury, right? yeah. >> i think that's that's that can factor into this discussion. >> and then they could inform the thinking of other jurors. i think yeah, i think that's going to be something that's going to be a value to that jury when they're talking about process and when you're talking about jury instructions, right? when the when the jurors for instructed as to what they need to think about by the judge the lawyers are going to have a role in explaining some of that in that in that room. i also think that they're also going to be able to look at this. they have to make the connection just because you have a campaign that's ongoing, just because you have haven't a hands-on candidate who cares a lot about what is being publicly said about him, cares a lot about micro-managing the communication he might not be a micromanager and other portions of his levs. i think you're probably going to hear some of that come out perhaps by the defense, perhaps on cross-examination because

they've only focused on the public-facing piece of it for trump. how did he get involved in he may have said make the payment. but how did that get recorded? how did it get? how did the payment? i'm at the mechanics of the payment that might have been all out of his purview. and i think there's something to be said about michael cohen that they established that he one of the rush through this it's whole thing that's something that's important describing as someone who was panicked, carried. >> it's hard to tell because a single positive adjective about michael cohen this process. so there is so much being talked about that in a way kind of laying the groundwork so that when he does speak, if he does be people say, okay, we've gotten this out of the way that this is a scummy business. we've gotten it out of the way that he's scurrying around, but it's not being said. is that there was panic because this would cause donald trump tremendous personal issues with his wife and his family. nobody nobody is talking about that

the very thing they're talking about is the campaigns, a very important point because it could be a good defense for him if you all can stand by as we await the jury coming back in? into the courtroom and court resuming after the lunch break we will take a look at that former trump aid. hope hicks is set to be back on the stand here in a matter of minutes when that does happen, then this just into cnn, we've learned democratic congressman henry clay are and his wife had been charged with accepting more than half 1 million in bribes from foreign entities. the charges revealed in an indictment in federal court prosecutors say the alleged scheme took place from late 2014 to at least november 2021. way are served as texas secretary of state in 2001, who was elected to the us house of representatives in 2004 we'll be right back attention former marines and family members station to camp plus june, if you lived or work that can't lose you in north carolina for at least 30 days from august

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went into damage control has been a central point up to this point, much more to come, right? briana? >> yeah. really has. and we heard from hicks painting this picture of what that was like. so let's catch everyone up. former federal and state prosecutor you're elie honig with me here to lay everything out. tell us what we heard from hope hicks. every out a quite a morning in court when court resumes at about 15 minutes or so, hope hicks will be on the stand continuing her direct examination. >> hope hicks, of course, is one of the first people to work on donald trump's campaign. she was his communications director and for a time, a very close confidant of donald trump. now, the key moment in time that hope hicks is testifying about is in the final month before the 2016 election, the access hollywood tape comes out. people. i'm sure remember this is when donald trump was caught on a hot mic talking about grabbed by the blank and all that. we remember this and hope hicks told you what was happening inside the campaign. now the prosecution in opening said that trump's campaign went into quote, damage control mode. and i think hope hicks is really borne that out. she

said, i was concerned, very concerned, ends up being an understatement of sorts. she said it first, donald trump's reaction was denied, denied, denied. now he didn't guys some of the affairs here, but he didn't end up denying this tape. and finally, again, in a little moment, perhaps of understatement hope, hicks said, this was a crisis. indeed, this was a crisis. another important thing that hope hicks has not yet been as much about, but i think we can look for this after the lunch break. she was part of a very important august 2015 meeting at trump tower, attended by donald trump, michael cohen, david pecker testified about this meeting earlier. michael cohen, we'll to he said, this is where we got together and said we're going to use the enquirer national enquirer to try to control donald trump's pr. hope hicks was in and out of that meeting. so i expect her to be asked about that meeting when her testimony resumes after lunch, and we also heard from a paralegal, why was her testimony so important for woman? >> i don't know if i feel bad for this paralegal or it's a great moment, i put a couple of paralegals on the stand on much

smaller cases a decade ago, they still remember it, but this paralegal at the da's office, georgia longstreet, took the stand purely as a vehicle to get in certain of donald trump's social media post. all she said was yes, this was in fact something donald trump posted one example that the prosecutors showed the jury trump posted in august of 2023. if you go after me, i'm coming after you. prosecutors argue this was an attempt by donald trump to intimidate witnesses on this case, and they'll argue that it goes to his state of mind. >> we also heard testimony from a forensic analyst, yes. at the manhattan da's office. tell us about this. so this is douglas daus forensic expert with the da's office and investigator. he went through two of michael cohen's cell phones and part of the testimony that he gave led to the introduction of a crucial piece of evidence in this case. this is a conversation that michael cohen, while he was still donald trump's lawyer, secretly recorded of him and donald trump talking about the pay to karen mcdougal and the jury has now heard that for the first time, let's take a quick listen to some of the most important excerpts from that

conversation. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all the bad info regarding our friend david so i'm going to do that right away. >> and i spoke to alan about it when it comes time for the financing, which will be well have paton yourself getting old? >> i got no he's no, no, no. >> don't worry yourself with the details. mr. trump. >> yeah. so that's exactly what the defense is going to say. the prosecution is going to say, and they're right. this tape clearly established as donald trump knew about, and was okay with the payment to karen mcdougal, the defense is going to say yeah, but if you listen to it, michael cohen is handling the details. he's essentially saying to trump, quote, no, no, no, no. >> i got it. >> does that matter though, if the how much does that matter? if the whole way you operate is to shield yourself and give yourself plausible deniability. >> the whole ballgame in this case is the minutiae that of

how the payoff to stormy daniel's was structured. and if donald trump just sort of stayed at 30,000 feet and didn't know about the whole michael cohen drawing down on his mortgage, pay her, and then michael cohen being reimbursed through a series of checks. if trump wasn't part of that, if all he said was i don't know payer. i'm fine. that's going to be a big problem for the prosecutors. >> all right. it's something definitely to watch. elie. thank you for taking us through that fill thanks, brown. >> i've seen it's paula reid is back with me now i'm all right. >> ellie gets the wall. >> we have your insight psychopathic knowledge of this case before her current and for balcony decent view walk me through what you think we're going to see from prosecutors going forward. and also second piece of this that i'm fascinated by, it's friday, it's just ahead of a weekend is about 90 minutes left. how are they handling the time issue here? >> so we have 90 minutes early release, so ctl start at 2:15 and 3405. and i think you can expect prosecutors, even if they have to filibuster there not going to let defense attorneys have a crack at hope hicks because they want their narrative and their questions

to remain in the hearts and minds of the jurors thinking strategically about something like that. >> absolutely. you can tell from the timing, right? >> they put on those two summary witnesses this morning to give themselves and just enough time. i would hope hicks there, their direct could even extend into monday i would be shocked if they let defense attorneys began their cross. >> well, we still have a lot of space to cover. >> now. we're right now and the questioning, they were an early november 2016 election hasn't even happened yet. and what's really unique about who picks as a witness is she can testify not only about what happened in the election, the transition, but then she went to the white house. so even if there's no indication at this point that she was privy to a trump signing checks or any effort to reimbursed cohen. >> she can talk about any mention of stormy daniels or karen mcdougal at the white house. we know another witness testified that she was speaking with david pecker about possibly extending karen mcdougal's hush money payment or her catch and kill deals. >> so we know that she has a lot to potentially talk about.

>> she was in the room where everything was happening. >> so as often with trump, so she can really be the first witness to meaningfully take us into 2017, which is when trump was reimbursing michael cohen throughout the first six or seven months of that year and that's going to be the first time we will have heard really anything about that critical time period. >> this is such a good point because i think everybody rightfully was waiting to hear from hope paste, given who she was and her role both before and after for president trump won the election. and how little we've heard from rep. at this point access hollywood, obviously massive moment, but we're not even to the point where these payments are actually happening, which we don't have a ton of insight into yet in this trial exactly. >> and hope hicks isn't necessarily going to be able to give prosecutors any sort of smoking gun. obviously, she not appear to have been directly involved in michael cohen pain, stormy daniel's or in then president trump paying michael cohen back. and why he paid him back. >> but again, she was in the room with him. she was around him during the time that he was

doing this reimbursement, which it's what he's charged for. he started with 34 counts of falsifying business records, so prosecutors are probably going and want to know. did you hear anything about stormy daniels was trump taking calls from cohen? were you on any of those calls? what was discussed. but right now, we're still pre 2016 election where the campaign is dealing with the fallout from access hollywood. again, that's so significant because the reason this case is charged as a felony, that's because they argue that this hush money was paid and covered up all in an effort to get trump re-elected. and the wake of that access hollywood tape, i mean, they were really crumbling under under the pressure, under the concern about any other listed sexual a story coming out and really ending his chances for the white house. this when we hear so much about access hollywood, even though it's, there's no real crime there, right if your the defense team right now, we spoke a lot yesterday about the effectiveness of their strategy in the cross davidson. >> what's your sense if you've talked to them or as you've watched this play out, how they would want to approach hope

hicks whenever that moment counts, probably monday, we think. oh, yeah. >> exactly. tuesday. monday. monday. >> i'm sure that they will probably take a light touch. this is not a hostile witness. this is someone that even though she has a strained from trump now, she's had pretty warm words for him praising i, his men messaging skills, his work ethic. you take a light touch and you just ask were you ever in a conversation where this hush money payment was arranged? was my client. do you have any evidence of that? do you have anything to say do with any evidence? >> the my client was somehow involved at falsifying business records are in a cover-up. >> i mean, she has really not much direct information, really almost no direct evidence to provide prosecutors to support the charges have been levied that their clients, i think for them, this could be pretty quick and dirty. just go up, be polite, be direct, and remind the jurors get there has been no direct link made between the hush money, the payment, the repayment, and the defendant. >> and you say again, because that has been a consistent theme throughout these first

ten, 11 days of the trial. there has not been that direct link. we're still waiting for that. we know someone who will give it whether or not his testimony stands up to the scrutiny it's certainly going to get will have to see paula reid we're back to your shortly in just a few minutes, you will start seeing alerts from all out on that left side of your screen. we've been covering it now for 11 days. court is about to resume. our special coverage continues rafter this sunday. story. one of the world's most diverse ecosystems eigen watson confronts the stark reality of climate change are to fight for us. >> the whole story with anderson cooper, sunday at eight on cnn your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. >> you need to hire a news indeed. >> indeed, you do. >> indeed instant match, instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description visited d.com slash higher yeah your worst nightmare, your car broke down.

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and we are back now with the latest on the trump criminal trial. >> you see the former president they're just walking back into court. that was just moments ago here in panel is back with us. jim, to you first, what are you looking ahead to as we hear more testimony from hope hicks and perhaps even some other witness, i think as we get closer and closer to the timeline, right. i think we want to see what she has to say about, you know, about the about other meetings that happened who were who was in those meetings? the meeting that was in trump tower, we had david pecker and she was in and out as those are the things we want to hear about. and other witnesses going forward who knows whether they call any other trump insiders? i don't think they do. i don't think there's a purpose for calling other trump insiders. i don't think it brings anything more to the case. most likely, given what we've heard from who picks, they're trying to

establish through her testimony that this was a this was something that campaign cared about and in the wake of the billy bush tape, in the wake of then the other things that follow it up with stormy daniel's. i think those they're trying to establish these this was a campaign and crisis and that they were responding to a campaign issue and that these payments were really hush money payments and not a lot legal fees. >> elliott, have they effectively done that? >> well, again, recognizing that we're i think nine or ten days into what could be a four week trial and there's still plenty of lawyering to be done. i think they've established three things. number one, that sum payment was made. number two, that there was hysteria within the trump campaign, particularly in the light of the access hollywood tape they were running around frightening friends of the campaign were texting, were at ease, eft, and that's been established. and also that donald trump was involved. the question is, how do you link those things? together? and i think that link hasn't been made yet, but again plenty more trial just to

note, hope hicks returning to the stand. >> so we're going to await what she said as long to be clear, i said trump involved in that. it was his campaign. it has not been established by any means that donald trump was the one directing the hush money payments and more to the point that they be concealed from voters. now, that's something that prosecutors certainly can prove. and the kinds of witnesses that were expecting to call this psc prosecutors called are the ones who could establish that. but as of right now, that still an open question. >> sorry. i think it really hinges on michael cohen. >> right? and i think that's the that's the star witness at the end of the day. that's who they really relied upon to prove their case. and it's really going to hinge on whether jury believes the guy are not. >> well, you have to you have to try and figure out whether trump in any way was the architect of anything, right? i mean, and that tape proves that michael cohen was the architect

of the repayment scheme, not donald trump who wanted to pay cash for it and he michael cohen went no, no. and i do just want to read this update here. hope hicks did not look at trump. she did not look in his direction as she passed him to the wind in this box, her right hand was actually cleansed into a fist, is what we're learning from observers. there are observers there in the courtroom. her left hand holding her purse, and trump looked up at hicks as she stepped into the witness box, so uncomfortable for i mean, she's been a close person to the trump family, not only donald trump for years and years, even though they haven't been close lately. and imagine how difficult this is. she's under subpoena. she has her own attorney. it's not being paid for by donald trump's, so she comes in as an independent witness. there and i think it's very difficult for her because she's testifying in some capacity, january around trump and his issues for a very long time. i

think the molar team investigated, had interviewed her at least three times there have been several leg testimony before congress, right. so sitting in some position opposite from trump is not unusual for her, and she has made it pretty clear. she's there because of subpoena, not because she's there because they at each other or something like that. >> she's also been incredibly complementary to the former president and making it sound, i think in one way, trying to be complimentary that he was very involved in. he took quite a hand and things. i don't know if legally that completely helps because that's sort of i think what the prosecution is trying to paint, which is that he's very much the one driving the ship here. >> i'm also interested in how a cross-examine would work, right? >> because we don't know where that relationship does come into play. and you guys can probably answer for me. she hasn't really said anything in particular as you've described? saying that trump's somehow was involved and saying we should

pay and also we should cover it up in some way. >> prosecutors now, picking back up with the wall street journal story, why is this significant? >> well, because this is i think how the world learned that these payments had been made. and so i think now they're getting into with hope hicks. okay. we talked about sort of what was happening in the throes of the 2016 campaign. now, we're moving ahead a bit. what was the reaction as this story started to leak out into the press and with respect to the cross-examination, which i think paula reid made a good point before i think prosecutors are going to try to run out clock today. remember a courts only in session till 3405 today. they're ending a little early for some reason. >> and from the front, from the prosecutor's point of view, you want the jurors going into the weekend only having heard your side, you don't want to start with the cross from the defense hexane, that she believes she heard mr. trump speaking to mr. cohen shortly after the story was published, and she is wringing her hands she's looking forward to the next question, which is about what did you talking about? >> that will be updated shortly, right? >> so we'll look for those

three dots. it tells it's updating on the praise of donald trump and to the point they can actually go both ways because she said it was interesting moment earlier on, verjee said, he runs his organization almost like a small business. it's a big, vast enterprise, but it's a small business. these hands and everything. but also everybody reports to him it sort of comes quickly. sorry. she says there was nothing memorable about oh, yeah. >> sometimes, sometimes the answers entitled, i haven't seen a lot today. i don't recall or i don't remember. i mean, she for a person who was by his side constantly for all that time, she has been answering the questions, at least we can see in written form in an assured and straightforward way there's not a lot of hemming and hiring and like, well, i'm not sure. i'm not sure. is this believable though, that if donald trump called michael cohen after that bombshell story, this is the story that broke wide-open. >> this allegation from which all of this stems calls michael cohen and there's nothing

memorable here's not off as a matter of common sense, us talking, what do we think will die? they were talking about something important as a matter of reasonable doubt planted in the minds of a jury that has to establish that this defendant had the specific pick knowledge to commit this crime. it's really not great. >> and i think what do you think that donald trump was saying? and michael cohen, i thought you had this all under control. >> well, i think that the memorable the non memorable part of it is was probably a rant and she's probably seen that grant time and time again. right. so i don't i'm not surprised at that answer because it was probably when it's not memorable, he was probably ranting, like he like you normally would. >> she said that ryan's previous was in the car with her and trump at the time of the call and that they you are traveling to a rally in hershey pennsylvania, even if hope hicks can't recall isn't going to testify about the specifics of the conversation, the fact that the call was placed in itself it's significant in

links donald trump right into the response to this story. it links michael cohen right into this response, links donald trump to michael cohen. >> she talks about how groundbreaking this was, or how seismic in a way, some when there would be something seismic like the access hollywood tape. it's something that stood out to hurt anyone in politics understands what a moment like that is like when this wall street journal story came out, anyone in politics or covering politics understands it has a different feel. this isn't just a run-of-the-mill donald trump blow-up, right? this is about something that didn't exist ben, by the way, right? again, when you would think of that fall, when that happened, it was the biggest thing that's right. that's right. but this is something that in particular gym, so i challenge you a little bit on what you said. >> she's paying very close attention to this shoes concerned with the story came out how does she not remember more about the phone call and prosecutors right now are showing hicks and the jury that wall street journal story they

can see it. so we don't know. number one, but i do think that it's very plausible that he picked up the phone, called michael cohen and just kinda blew up about the whole thing. and who knows what was said in the conversation. it was so much going on. she could've been doing focusing on the games, not particularly paying attention to the phone call. but was there for the phone call? there's a whole lot of reasons you might not remember. >> i think she has been very honest about our testimony so far, been very forthright, and there's no reason that the believer in this case it's just going to say, again, speculate on this call, but i think we don't want to use are categories of how politicians behave in a scandal for donald trump. >> because what we've learned in what we know of right from our years of watching him and the public hi is that he has a symbiotic relationship with the tabloid press. here we're getting the actual mechanics of it, but the idea that a new news breaks and it's about you and he'd be like, what's happening is not how it works for him. i think washington

politicians are used to going into a true panic mode for most kinds of stories. but that's not who this person is. and really what we're trying to do is find out how and whether it crossed over into wrongdoing. >> and let's get in a quick break as we do note that hicks is now read the denial that she gave to the wall street journal for the story. obviously more ahead on the sort of process behind them coming to that denial at the time, hicks says, and this is just updating right now that she told the reporter that the claim of the affair was totally untrue. hope hicks, one of the people closest to trump, both on the campaign and in the white house continuing her testimony right now, we are monitoring it will bring you the very latest in our special coverage when we get back every piece of evidence tells us

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that's 1807123800. >> i'm sunlen serfaty in washington and this is cnn welcome back to our special coverage of former president donald trump's criminal hush money trial. >> and right now, former trump but i one of his closest aides and advisors, hope is back on the stand and she's being asked specifically about trump campaign's reaction to the bombshell story published on november 4, 2016, just four days before the election. let's story revealed the hush money payment made to play mate karen mcdougal by the national enquirer fire hicks has been asked about the official response she gave to the paper at the time, which was quote we

have no knowledge of any of this. then went on to say that it was quote, totally untrue. you can see it right there. they've since moved on to more about the stormy daniels and the response to the stormy daniel stories as well. let's bring in seeming correspondents, poll, read, and kristen holmes. paula, i want start with you because as this is continuing to roll out, we're seeing more updates on the left side of your screen, the jury seeing texts that michael cohen sent to hope hicks, the back-and-forth hicks when it comes to stormy, daniel's just few moments ago saying she was explicitly told to deny that story and what it entailed. what are you seeing right now is this prosecution continues as questions our colleagues in the courtroom are reporting that hicks seems quite nervous, which he has been throughout her testimony, but especially here she's sort of giggling through some of her answers, smiling nervously, wringing her hands. and part of the reason is because she knows that prosecutors are now going to walk her through a series of public statements she gave that we now know were false. now, one text message between her

and michael cohen reads, call me 7:08 p.m. any news? eight 50. any news at nine? so this is going to be actually something to really watch the communication between her and michael cohen as it pertains to this wall street journal story about karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. i mean, this could potentially, depending on where these text messages say this could be helpful for the prosecution, but we'll wait till more commands. >> yeah, interesting what one of the kind of connections that has not been directly made from what the former president, the role he had, how much he knew firsthand knowledge of where he was during all of this, you were on the campaign and you were covering the trump campaign in this period of time as we continue to see these updates come in, what's being described or what you're seeing about what was happening behind the scenes. was that known publicly? >> no, absolutely not. remember this was kind of shock after shock at the time on the campaign trail. i think what the prosecution is doing here successfully with this witness is you have someone here who's

not really in the underbelly of society, like we have seen with so many of these other witnesses, they're taking somebody who was in trump's inner circle, who is next to him day in and day out. and she's giving what seems to be at least through reading the transcripts were not in the courtroom. a very honest testimony of what she knew and didn't know what the campaign look like at the time and how all of this unfold. and now of course, some of the basics we didn't know, we didn't no, that she had this kind of meteoric rise with no political background to become the head of communications. we knew that donald trump had everything that he said every statement that went out about him vetted through him himself, that she was not just given carte blanche to go out there and respond for him like so many other communications since directors are but what she's really doing here is giving a walk through of every single thing that happened in really kind of linking a lot of this together. now of course, it's not necessarily linking anything together for the case, but just what exactly was

happening in the background there, particularly what happened after that access hollywood tape because there's a lot of us remember yes. there was a lot of talk about whether or not this was going to end donald trump's political career. >> but donald trump himself came out with this kind of air of confidence. and as we know, it did not end his political career, but to see the kind of decisions and conversations that were happening behind the scenes that has been very interesting as it's all unfolds yeah, there's no question about that. i want to read some of the updates we've gotten where they're reading attacks from cohen to hope hicks is they're trying to be updated on when the server is gonna public pick sent. the story two or the link to the story to cohen when it published, kohn responding poorly get written and i dot, i think even don't there she getting much play hicks, apparently according to reporters in the room, laughing when she was reading the typo there. now, hicks saint court, i agree with most of that, and it will get play because the media is the worst. but he should just ignore and blow past it. >> and this is significant because of course they're

talking about a story from the related to karen mcdougal and stormy daniels four days before the election. now at this point, both women have a compensation to keep quiet about their alleged affairs would then candidate trump, but there is a heightened concern, a heightened vigilance within the campaign at this time, concern about any more damaging stories related to really any sort of illicit sexual behavior that's why i think these text messages are significant. it shows that cohen i'm pigs as well as the campaign press secretary, are watching this very closely to see how the story plays out. >> yeah, and no mention of the family here focus on the kids all right. follow rechristened much more to come as we continue to watch the testimony or read through the testimony of hope hicks has gotten back underway here in new york. longtime trump hope hicks capping off this week of testimony, talking about her time working on the former president's 2016 campaign and how it handled potentially damaging the store is also worked in the white house as well. we will keep you updated back in a minute so this is the

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that from hope hicks is testimony that trump did not want the newspaper delivered to his house. he didn't want his wife, melania trump to see this in the paper. so let's bring our panel back as we look at these updates coming in from hope hicks, what do you think elie, as you see what she's saying? well, in isolation, the piece of testimony about how donald trump did not want his wife to find out about this, did not want to pay for delivered to the residents. >> is really good for the defense because they've been arguing all along his primary motivation and making these payments was to protect himself, his wife, his family, reputationally. >> but it seems like hope hicks is also confirming that he also we all work concerned with the campaign as well. >> and when you have a mixed motive situation like this you would rather have it be clean from the prosecutor's point of view, but the prosecutors can still make their case if they can show that a substantial motive, even if it's one of several motors, a substantial motive was the campaign. that's still good enough for prosecutors. >> yeah. >> they went on to say

everything they were dealing with. they look through the lens of the campaign, right? so it was just commonplace if there was anything going on. it, donald trump's world, it had to be have they had a look at it from a campaign perspective and that's the case, whatever again, she turns hope hicks does just a moment ago to the juror and said, she to explain what the outer oval office looks like as she's talking about sort of the machinations of what's going on. >> but she had said that everything we've talked about in the context of this time period, in this timeframe it was about whether or not there was an impact to the campaign to your point? she her office is she's explaining when she joined was in the outer oval what she says was right outside of the oval. she was very much i'm truly the gatekeeper as anyone who covered the white house understood. or was looking in for access to the oval office there she was sort of to run interference and it's not it's a very small space as she explains, it's pretty it's not grant even though you think of the white house, it's actually it's pretty little it within the

bounds of historical building. >> i always point to you to echo his words for a moment ago in isolation. yeah, not that great. of fact, it is relevant though in that she would have had proximity do conversations that were happening she might have been able to have conversations with the president and he's team because he was coming in and out and overheard things and she will my guess is that she probably toughest applies to some of that as it comes up, but more to the point these might be basic facts about the world, the oval office is small, but prosecutors have to establish virtually everything to this jury that knows nothing about the facts at all. so we're getting a little bit, this is just she's just explain to people madeline western out that she sat in that same area with her at the time. >> she was trump's executive assistant at the time. so she's just going through how things worked there outside of the oval office within earshot you know, he can he can just scream, hope, get in here and shoot bellowed he did.

>> and she would yeah. >> and so could other so could others here as well but this is a really interesting moment that we're going through right here, which has to do, we can we imagine this? just a few days before the election, adi? and this wall street journal story is breaking the stories of two women that the trump orbit has really tried to keep silent ahead of the election and failing in this case when it comes to karen mcdougal, the wall street journal breaking this story eventually more than a year later, they'll break the stormy daniel's payoff is well. but all of this is how all of this is happening obviously they're not in the white house there on the campaign, but all of this is happening and there must just be chaos inside of the campaign they're figuring out how to deal with this and also struck by what a time capsule this case is. i mean, there's so many aspects of it that feel like can't be replicated any the just the fact that we're talking about it tape, right? we've just seen the advent of

ai in the last year. go mainstream. i don't know who is going to believe tapes anymore, and i know politicians have all kinds will be able to do now i things that they say can be manipulated the sex scandal, even for a politician were in the end of shame, nobody is going to say, i have a sex scandal, and therefore, i need to not do this job anymore. that's not been the take the takeaway from the last couple of months. so there's something about this case that feels it's historic for many reasons. but at this point, it also has a kind of like ancient element. what about hiding the story from millennia by saying don't give him the newspapers is going college. >> you're probably going to work so all right. so first for so long as well, just to see here, the judge and i'm curious, what are legal minds think here the judge overruling an objection over a question about hicks is awareness of karen mcdougal? suing ami to be released from our end. >> i'd be curious about what the basis for the objection was. it's probably because it brings in fact, that aren't relevant to the parties here.

>> i can see why the judge overruled. just one only on account of the fact that it establishes these are all facts, she filed this lawsuit. she had the nda and so on. there's nothing that's going to unduly prejudice the defendant or cousin problem. the are so i think the judge's lighter than all right. >> let hexane she hadn't remembered that independently, but says that she recently had her memory refreshed about that lawsuit. so this is ongoing. hope hicks on the stand, obviously a very important person during those years in the white house and prior in former president trump's orbit, we're going to keep an eye on her continued testimony are special coverage continues ahead when we talk to one of the people who represented donald trump during the second impeachment trial only purples gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. >> no other matters. cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. memory foam doesn't come close, get your best sleep guaranteed, save up to $800 during our

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because i'm tony is five-star freshness that pretty litter.com i'm josh campbell on the ucla campus in los angeles. this is cnn welcome back, as seen in special coverage of donald trump's hush

money criminal trial just moments ago, the prosecution revealed a text message from a white house aide to hope hicks in 2018. >> i but message was sent on the day playboy playmate karen mcdougal sued ami and read quote hey, the president wants to know if you called david pecker again to continue to follow the latest updates from the his testimony joining stamp, they've shown shown was donald trump's attorney during his second impeachment trial. >> david when you watch kind of what's transpired over the course of the last several hours, there are a lot of people who claim they know what donald trump is doing, how he's operating. >> there. very few who actually do hope hicks is one of those people what was your takeaway from her testimony at this point you know, look, i think she's been a pretty good witness vile around become the gross, i think as an honest witness hizon, a very difficult position. >> but i think she's helped him. he's hurt, you know? and that's the way you knows, you know, the ebb and flow of most files go i think that there's

no surprises at any of her testimony and the evidence to come in so far, the question is, can the defense eat that evidence and it complicit within it tends theory the text messages that i read the beginning donald trump wind to get in touch with david pecker wind, no hope picks a spoken to david pecker he seems to be pretty involved here. >> is that fair i think that's fair yes and no. >> there have been a lot of testimony that all of the communications between davidson coal and cohen trump wasn't involved even hope hicks kept some things from them until the last moment, but i think they can't credibly go to the jury and say get you know, president trump didn't know anything about any of this, wasn't at all concerned and all that. that's not a cogent defense strategy at goje defense strategy would be have a few prompts do it, but one of them is a defense strategy and theory of defense. they can eat all of this evidence and say at the end of the day, there was no crime either. there was no

misdemeanor in here because he believed davidson's testimony that this money was for a settlement, not pay off, then the businesses entry was either correct or pretty close to correct. and not with an intent to defraud. there's no misdemeanor, therefore, no predicate or any felony or technical defense. the grand jury never identified what the target prime was. the defendant can't defend against that because this one is 56th amendment rights or if the felony is is 17, new york election law, conspiracy to promoter prevented election through unlawful means, that they didn't do that. there was nothing there's nothing unlawful that entering into a settlement to stop defamatory, true or untrue information for coming out that might look bad for a candidate. it would say that's not a crime right? >> can i ask why is this and i've got a fairly decent understanding of how the prosecution is has operated up to this point, what the defense

team has put together that it's solid. i think everybody would acknowledge cross examination yesterday of keith davidson. is michael cohen everything here where we're learning a lot, we're seeing a lot of things from an industry and types of operations that maybe we didn't want to know about are certainly weren't aware of before. but is this all really come down to michael cohen? >> it's a great question. i think that's kind of been enter things from the beginning, but the jury's don't interest in some of this latest details. there. meeting new personalities all the time the person they wanted to meet, and they met and make an impression. but yes, at the end of the de you're going to see a huge battle royale with michael cohen. and the prosecution's well aware that they're going to have to eat many bad fact, many previous whys misstatements inconsistent statement at all. and the question is whether they can overcome all of that so the question is my mind that these whether the defense is going to call witnesses like bach is still the judge found that they cannot put on evidence that the federal election commission or

the southern district reviewed all of this and passed on it. but they could put on evidence from bob castello, who is michael cohen's lawyer, who told the fence and grand jury in this case that that michael cohen told a completely different story and that he told going he had every incentive to bury donald. donald trump. now is the time to do it. and it cone said, no, there is nothing gets trump. estella would be a compelling witnesses, a former chief deputy, the criminal division in the southern district of new york cohen waiver privilege with him. so it's going to be very interesting to see how it all plays out. but the cross-examined, the direct and are crews this case, you're right. and even by the way, i still would say that cogent defense theory a smart one in this case, could even eat all that michael cohen has to say, dept, you can be sure he's gonna be as strong as he can. and trying to put it put it to trump in every way he can there is no question that is going to be a very interesting, both legally and somewhat

entertaining perspective over the next couple of weeks, i've shown it's been my friend that's always great to see you. >> thanks so much same here. >> thank you very much well, moment ago, former trump paid hope hicks testified that when she asked extra blur, mike cohen about the hush money payment revealed by the washington post. >> he claimed the hundred and $30,000 was never paid. it never happened our panel reacts to that and much more. >> i'm going to okay someone just did laundry. >> how i add one light. so the fraction is really last. yeah, most set itself gives me a headache, but this is just right and i don't like anything, but i like this get a late sense that lasts with no heavy perfumes or dies good day to cough. >> oh no bob, i call later chest congestion. hello, 12 hours of relief wow now coffering it, but movies, hashtags, gel, not coffee

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>> try free at fubotv.com and kayla tausche at the white house. >> and this is cnn closed captioning is brought to you by sokoloff law mesothelial mv victims call now $30 billion in trust money has been set aside. you may be entitled to a portion of that money all when 8085920400. that's when 8085920400 welcome back. >> is we're learning of some very dramatic testimony that just having moments ago, this

is our special coverage of former president trump's on pressing so vetted, hush money, criminal trial, right now, the jury has been hearing from perhaps the most significant witness so far that is hope hicks, and it is their first insider account of the trump 2016 campaign scramble to do damage control after the access hollywood tape was made public. >> and also after an initial story was published about affairs with karen mcdougal, alleged affairs with karen mcdougal and stormy daniel's moments ago, hicks was asked if trump ever communicated directly about the payment and she tests justified, quote, i only know about one instance sometime in the middle of february, mr. trump told me about it a few minutes later, she said, quote, sorry, president trump. the court is now taking a brief break after hicks began crying was audibly sniffing, according to our observers, there and our reporters who are there in the room. >> we have cnn chief legal

affairs correspondent paula reid outside the manhattan courthouse. >> paula, this was pretty dramatic. tell us what happened probably the most dramatic moment we've seen so far in this trial. hope hicks facing questions from prosecutors specifically about whether she knew about that hush money payment. >> if trump i've had ever talked to her about it, and she testified that she only knew of one instance sometime in the middle of february 2017, that trump told her about it. now she goes on to say that trump told hicks that cohen did it out of the kindness of his heart and she goes on to explain how she didn't really believe that because a colon wasn't necessarily known as a quote, selfless or charitable persons. so yet another witness on the stand attacking the witness at the heart of this case, michael cohen, and then she she becomes emotional chief. she apologizes. she then refers to him as president trump, and that's when she begins to break down. now, briana, throughout this testimony is she has clearly

displayed signs that she is nervous. once you took the stand, she said that she was nervous and especially as the questions became more and more pointed about the allegations of the heart of this case. she's been wringing her hands, sort of giggling and laughing through answers. so not a surprise that this block of questioning and did in tears. now, she only has about 40 more minutes. it's unclear if prosecutors will have any more questions for her okay. >> so unclear if they're going to have any more questions, paula tell us about this break that they took in exactly what it's for so. >> usually they take a break in the morning at a break in the afternoon and a break in the middle of the day for a lunch. again, according to our reports of inside the courtroom, it does look like they decided to take a break as soon as she started crying. it's unclear if the judge just wanted to give her a little space or they're just taking their usual afternoon break and it happened to be well-timed. now today is an early day usually court goes until four 30, but they're

getting out early today and it was expected that prosecutors probably wouldn't want to allow defense attorneys to have a crack at hope hicks. they don't want anything from the defense, any of their questions, any of their narrative to be in the minds and the hearts of jurors as they go home. so at this point, it's unclear there's some suggestion from our colleagues in the courtroom that that is the last the last line of question from prosecutors. but this one we're just looking to see if they have any more questions for her. but clearly this is incredibly stressful situation. she is a strange from former president trump. >> she hasn't even looked at him. >> briana throughout this entire proceeding. remember she's to be one of his closest advisers. she's not even looking at him. she's at the center now, the biggest case in the world of very difficult situation for anyone, sort of surprising as the first-person we've seen cry on the stand. >> yeah. in the descriptions that we're getting, of course, from our colleagues, even as she walked in with her hands sort of balls into a fist. this is not a comfortable situation to say the least for her and polo, we just learned of a key moment when just before the break, hicks said of trump's

assessment of the hush money story that it was mr. trump's opinion is that it was better to be dealing with now and that it would have been bad to have that story come out. before the election. what did you make at this moment so that's important because remember, at the heart of this case, allegations that trump falsified 34 business records to cover up that he paid back michael cohen for hush money and not just for the usual legal services and the reason this is being charged as a felony is because prosecutors allege this was all done this entire conspiracy was done in an effort to help trump wins the white house. >> so this suggestion that it's better to deal with the story now, because to come out before the election could have hurt my chances of taking the white house. and that is significant as the prosecutors tried to build this case and proved to the jury that everything they did and around the stormy daniels hush money payment after the access hollywood tape at before the election that all of that was

done not to protect trump's family, but to enhance his chances of becoming president all right. >> paula reid. thank you for that. obviously, very dramatic moments in hope hicks is testimony there in court just moments ago as they are in a break, but we expect will convene again shortly and we'll bring it all updates to you and they do back with our panel now, is this a bit of a slam dunk? this, this comment from hope hicks, i wouldn't say slam dunk, but this is good evidence for the prosecution and proceeding that that comment that you made, the it would have been bad at this came up before the election. what preceded it was a couple of times. the prosecutors tried to ask would it have been out of character for michael cohen to have gone rogan done this by himself in twice. the defense objected to it. i think what was happening there was that they thought it was speculating about what donald trump would have been normal in a way that wasn't okay to put in front of

the jury, the judge let that question and it was clear that the defense is pretty sensitive about it now, they said the answer that she gave was that no, this actually would have been out of out of the ordinary. and in all likelihood, this would have been something that would have been available to donalds or something that donald trump would have known about? so it was an interesting back-and-forth. and you can see what defense team is concerned about when the repeatedly objecting about something that ultimately ended up getting if we assume hope hicks is being taken as a credible, credible believable witness, which i think she clearly is being treated as such by both sides. there's good news and bad news for the prosecutors. the good news is exactly what eliot just said, and she's returned to the stance, will be waiting okay. we'll see if she's on cross exam are finishing up her direct exam. the good news for prosecutors is she has made it as clear as really anyone could that inside the trump campaign and later inside the white house, they were we're very concerned about these stories getting out for political reasons. yes, there was also a concern about millennia, but primarily for political reasons.

>> the bad news is this now keeps up the prosecution's perfect or imperfect record. >> every single prosecution witness who had anything to do with michael cohen said essentially, he's a terrible person. i don't so much care about that. that's more atmospherics and he lied and in this case, he lied publicly. he said there was no payment ever made to stormy daniels originally, that was his story back then. and so defense lawyers are going to have a field day with that. they're going to stand up across and say, this guy's a liar, you know how, you know it. all their witnesses told you that from david pecker to the banker, gary farro, to keith davidson, two hello, picks. and can you reconcile your two points because you're essentially saying wait, why are they so worried about her characterization of hope hicks of michael cohen and we're seeing in some of the notes that she's talking about things he would not do out of the goodness of his heart. yeah. it's the rare insult that seems to be helpful. >> i don't know if this reading no, i think it's i think they're both. right. yeah. >> really good evidence here for the prosecution that trump was doing this for campaign purposes, that it was executed

for campaign purposes. >> and that's really bad evidence for the defense in that case, right? good evidence for prosecution, but also they're star witness at the end of the day is still michael cohen. and they've every witness that come up as basically said, he's a liar. so it cuts both ways like both guys said. >> and as they've taken this break, which it does appear now, it seemed to have been time because she was having a little bit of a sort of a a motion on the stand. she'd said sorry about that. yeah. pick said she had cried on the stand, was audibly sniffing and they've taken a just a really quick so a couple things judges will do that you don't want someone to be on the stand distraught. it's bad for that person. it's bad for the trial. and so on. also, on this moving back to the michael cohen not being a terrible person. what's interesting is that, that's not really credibility evidence that doesn't really speak to did he lie as the truth for not it's just sort of piling on the fact that nobody he seems to like this

guy as a witness, but credibility would have been he has a conviction for life which is the kind of thing you could use against him. >> but it speaks to the issue on the michael cohen and the charity speaks to the issue that that at least from hope hicks is perspective because trump did mention the payments to her. she testified to that that there would be an expectation that trump would be paying absolute michael cohen back yeah, absolutely. >> and trump said that michael cohen did it out of the goodness of his heart which was not true. and donald trump knew that that wasn't true and hope hicks did not find it, believes mobile to be what she was clearly communicated. and likewise, earlier in her testimony, she said that michael cohen said, i don't know anything about this call pecker, right? so you have this kind of back and forth between the defendant in this case and the star witness he's telling the truth. and why would michael cohen not tell the truth to hope hicks i mean, she was close to donald trump. she was an important person and

he's going to equivocate with her you and then let's just mention here earlier than just a moment ago it's attorney emil bove had said to hicks that if you need a minute, just let me know. >> and then beauvais asks you felt that you had his trust and respect in hq says his trust and respect? yes. her voice is still quivering, but a very emotional moment continues to be as we see an update coming in here, which i'll read as soon as we get. >> so this is now cross-examination by donald trump's lawyers. i assume the he whose trust and respect are talking about here is donald trump right. it's not great for the prosecutors when your own witness breaks down at the end of the direct examination, haven't even gotten into the cross-examination yet they're going to want to push on that. they're going to want to use. listen it's way more persuasive for the jury to hear from hope hicks how dishonest michael color was then to hear from the lawyers for donald trump. >> and here they're just establishing trump's attorney is that rhona graff, a long

former assistant, had a similar relationship of mutual respect with trump. i really looked up to rhona hicks said, again, holding back tears, i would make a slight counterpoint to la, which is that cross-examining a crying witness, is something that can very quickly turn a jury off of an attorney emil bove has a very delicate needle to thread read here. they want to hit her hard and they want to push the points that she's made. but on a stylistic level, it's something that fraught with peril. >> let's talk, let's talk a little bit about this is someone who's clearly torn. >> yeah. >> and she's testifying here. so let's talk about why she may be crying. >> donald trump. >> i think it's very clear that she doesn't want anything. she says to damage him and she apologized at one point and said, i'm sorry because she knows that some of the things she might be saying about what trump was aware of at what time? it'd be damaging to

somebody she's still admirers. >> let's go back to paula reid, paul, i know that you have some more details about this moment that we're trying to understand yeah. so just a reminder, we don't have cameras in the courtroom, so we're relying on our our colleagues were inside giving us updates and there was that really hectic moment where she started crying but now i'm getting some more clarity from one of our colleagues inside about exactly what happened. and it is definitely the most significant moment in this trial so far. i'm told that when she was on the stand, she tends to five that trump told her that michael cohen made the payment. he thought it was a generous thing to do. that trump said he was appreciative of the loyalty and trump thought it was better to deal with this story now, because it would have been bad if the story had come out before the election. and this person is inside the court said she realized hope hicks realized after she said all that that she had just likely sung kim, right? made this case stronger for the prosecution. and that is when she broke down crying.

now, this source inside one of our colleagues says is the closest thing to a perry mason moment there is in a white-collar case. so as it was happening live, think was a little hard to follow exactly what triggered hard to break down. but this is the more coherent narration of exactly what transpired. again, an incredibly powerful moment in this trial. and one of the rare moments with the prosecution may have been nimble to get their point across to the jury. now, of course, she is on cross-examination by defense attorneys. we're going to try to undo this in the about 30 minutes that they have yeah, which, which may be tough considering her emotional state and she says she appeared to paula apologize to the former president so she appears at the time at this, in this particular instance, she appears to have explained what trump told her about how michael may the paint he meant he thought it would be generous. he was appreciative of the loyalty and then tie it directly to the election and that's when this person said,

she, you could tell hopes to hope recognize what she had just done to her former boss. now, at one point, she did apologize to the former president for not calling him president trump. but here it appears that what prompted this emotional response, according to one of our colleagues in is that hope realize that that piece of testimony that she had just given was really going to help make the prosecution since case yeah. >> very very important details there, paula. thank you so much for that. thank you, everyone. if you can just stand by for me, how is the jury reacting to all of this? we're going to speak to a jury consultant next every piece of evidence tells a story how would really happen? jesse l. martin, sunday's at night on cnn deliveries happened ordered that this

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we're following all of the drama and there is a lot playing out in the new york courtroom or former president trump is on trial. >> former aide hope hicks is on the stand right now. she is told the jury, she began by telling the jury she's nervous. at one point here just moments ago, she actually cry i and the judge took a break moments ago. she came back onto the stand after a few minutes away and she said this while describing former trump attorney michael cohen, quote, he liked to call himself a fixer or mr. fix it and it was only because he first broke it that he was able to then fix it. she laughed after seeing that joining me now is jury consultant allan. allen, turkey, tuerkheimer. allan, i'm curious what you think. i just described that moment to you where hope hicks is being extremely critical. michael cohen on the flip side moments before she had

described former president trump telling her that cohen had made these payments basically out of the goodness of his heart, but that she didn't find cohen to be very charitable. so she seemed to be casting doubt on whether that would be true that this was just michael cohen entirely acting independent italy on this. and she seemed to cry on the stand after saying that how does a jury look at these kind of mixed messages that they're getting from someone who on one hand is being very critical of michael cohen. and then on the other hand, appears to be saying things that aren't helpful to trump immediately. >> this is a poignant moment and i think jurors are going to appreciate person saturday that she was genuine. they liked that. she said that she gets nervous, that she is nervous. jurors can appreciate when a witness levels with them to that extent. and so i think that they're going to remember that. and maybe been on a break, they might have looked at each other. they're not allowed to talk about the case, but they probably thought, wow,

that was a key moment. but at the end of the day, this is a witness in the middle of the trial. the middle of the prosecution's case the jurors remember the opening statements the prosecution use some pretty charged words orchestrated schemed, tried to corrupt the election than the defense got up there and said, there's nothing to see here. they shouldn't have been charged. it's not against the law to try to influence the election. so their job is to take away what the key pieces of the testimony are. and then when closing arguments happen, the lawyers are going to connect the dots for them. so i think she was a good witness for the prosecution. i think the jurors, it sounds like they're pretty riveted by your testimony, but it's certainly a much bigger piece of the puzzle and it'll be very interesting since the stage is being set for how credible the jury is going to think michael cohen is when he takes the stand. >> yeah. that was really my next question for you because she's not alone in saying very unfavorable things about michael cohen that has come up time and again. how does that affect how the jury may see

what michael cohen says and how does that normally happen where you have someone who appears to be unlawful? light, and unsavory and yet can a jury still find them credible they certainly can. >> if the prosecution's got to remind the jury that he's under oath and probably remind him what would happen if he wasn't telling the truth. i'll say he's telling the truth, so i think if he's a smooth talker, not smooth and the disingenuous glib sense. but if he speaks plain english, if you tells everything that he knows, i think there's still a good chance that they're going to believe this testimony. they might not like them. they might think these kind of a dirt bag and that when he was involved in the underworld of trump, he got sucked into it and maybe initiated a lot of schemes and plans that were living unsavory. but at the end of the de i don't think they're gonna go into it very skeptical and other gonna be wanting him to earn their trust and a sense,

but i still the key has a chance to tell the truth and that his testimony might end up being embraced by the panelists yeah, it will be very interesting to see alan so helpful to get your insights. thank you thanks, briana. hope hicks is capping off this week with really emotional testimony about both former president trump and former fixer michael cohen will have more just ahead di trump hush money trial gavel to gavel coverage. >> the way only cnn can bring it to you. legal insight, expert we're analysis, and real-time updates live from the courtroom follow the facts follow the testimony, follows cnn fashion moves fast so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level with a custom private 5g networks, we get more control of production efficiencies and greater agility. >> that's enterprise intelligence. it's your vision, it's your verizon your calling some people find there's at an early age others later in life no matter when

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welcome back to our special coverage of this major legal drama playing out in trump's hush money trial. >> hope hicks just excused from the stand, but not before the former first lady, melania trump came up and testimony hicks was asked about whether trump was concerned about how the mcdougal story, the story about former playmate karen mcdougal would affect things at home. she answered, quote, president trump really values mrs. trump's opinion and she doesn't weigh in all the time. but when she does, it's really meaningful to him and he really, really respected what she has to say. i think she was just concerned about what the perception of this would be. i know that was weighing on him. let's talk to paula reid a little bit about this moment paula, this it was interesting to see on cross-examination where trump's attorney, when here yeah. >> well done. here by the defense attorneys. they really

took their opportunity to drive home. what are the key points of their defense, which is that the money that was paid to stormy daniel's was meant to keep her quiet about the affair, though not to help trump's chances in the election, but instead to protect his family. and here, hope hicks helping them with that defense saying yes, then candidate or trump, he was concerned about how things would would play with these stories in terms of his wife, who's concerned when the mcdougal story came out, he didn't want newspapers being delivered to his residence. he didn't want his wife if to see it. so this helps the defense amplify their argument that the reason that all of these hush money deals were brokered, was to protect his family, not to protect his chances of winning the white house. so hope hicks was able to help the defense there so ask a lot about michael cohen and like pretty much all the other witnesses in this case, briana hope paix doesn't have a lot of very nice things to say about cohen's sort of suggesting that he didn't have a role in the campaign, but he tended to metal? yes, he was known there's a fixer but it's usually because he had broken

something. so again, not a flattering statement about cohen who is of course someone who will take the stand will be very complicated witness for prosecutors. it seems the one thing that all sides so this case agree on is that nobody has anything nice to say about michael cohen? >> yeah. >> that is certainly something they have in common. >> judge juan merchan just saying all right. jurors, we're going to call it a week. so that is the end of the week. paulo, where you are in court. but of course, more to come. paula reid. thank you so much for that latest from new york. let's talk about the impact of this testimony. end of this week. >> yeah. so here's what i think it's interesting that the prosecution did not take the opportunity they could have redirect examined her and chose not to. there's a couple of reasons why the two big sort of blows to the prosecution that came up were number one, this money was these payouts were made not just for the campaign but to hide from donald

trump's family personal reasons. one and two, michael cohen had a practice of going rogue and acting independently of donald trump. i guess that the prosecution felt that neither of those things are that revolutionary in in terms of the case those are the main arguments the defense has been raising all along and will raise the raising the opening statement. they were raising their closing. it's not worth going back in questioning a witness that's already crying try to patch up stuff that is at the heart of the defense's case. it was fine to leave it. >> i think the other thing that came out at the end here was that he wasn't part that he was never intended to be and was not part of the official campaign. >> right? they made that very clear that michael cohen is not right, and that michael cohen, while you he would interject himself. there's no way that steve bannon, kellyanne conway hope picks or anybody else wanted him in that room or anywhere near that campaign? no doubt about that. and she made that clear today. and then in that context, said he he from

time to time went rogue. so if you put it and put the road comment in that context, that's pretty good testimony for the defense until hope hicks, we really haven't heard much about consent turn for the family and she raised it. and my question is where she a better witness for the defense or the prosecution and, you know, that really helps the defense when she says he was concerned about melania and didn't want to be embarrassed and wanted to keep the newspapers out of the house, et cetera et cetera but she also gave some information then showed trump's awareness of what was going on and even though he lied to her and said michael cohn did the payments out of the goodness of his heart. so she also helped them to a great degree. so it's kind of hard to say where she came down and i don't know whether the prosecution is happy with her testimony or not.

>> i think all week we've heard like these two stories, right? because case has fundamentally from attorneys opens, are its storytelling the width prosecutor saying, look, this is it's what it is defending. this is what it is. and i don't want to go so far as to say that hope hicks was damaging for one versus the other because the fact still remains that cohen was a go-to phone call for trump and at the end of the day, this is a case, the defendant is trump. it's not actually michael cohen and so it'll be interesting how this conversation plays out. the next couple of days with the witnesses as we get closer to cohen himself. but he is not on trial. all right and fundamentally, just because he wasn't part of the campaign, it doesn't mean that trump himself didn't go to him when he had concerns. but it of course it's fascinating to see the inner workings of this, right? someone being dismissive of a person in the inner circle and it seemed those dynamics play out such an important

point because you know who else doesn't always do with the campaign wants him to do. donald trump everyone. >> thank you so much. which if you can stay with me and standby here. we are expecting to hear from former president trump in a moment. we're going to monitor those remarks. so stay with cnn so this the playoffs. >> great teammates trust each other. we're going to do a trust balls, stand up, trust what you're certainly up doc told him he was a dummy now adt professionally installs google nest products you're all set are in the system we should go with the most trusted name and home security as the intelligence of google, you have a home with no worries brought to you by adt bids to credit. we know running a business takes everything you have, and only a certain kind of leader has what it takes.

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welcome back to our special coverage of the criminal trial of former president donald trump court is over. it's ended early for the day following dramatic testimony from longtime trump aid hope hicks. hicks becoming emotional at one point after what an insider described as a critical moment, she was asked about trump's assessment of the hush money story. and it's fallout. her response, quote, it was mr. trump's opinion that it was better to be dealing with it now and then it would have been bad to have that story come out before the election for some more perspective, now we're joined by presidential historian geoffrey angle to talk a little bit more about this. and jeffrey is we're approaching the end of this second week of testimony and what is your view of what you're watching unfold like i say, it's, it's really impressive to me that most of the people commenting on the trial are of course, lawyers, prosecutors, defendants. >> they talk about motions to talk about appeals they talk about jury selection. but the

truth matter is this case is exactly what people who wrote the constitution would have worried about for a the person who wants to become president because whether or not donald trump is convicted by this trial, he's would meet a the standard that they use for impeachment, which was high crimes and misdemeanors, which is to say something which is an offense against the people and offense against the nature of the state. so by essentially misleading in voters, he's doing exactly what the people who wrote the constitution worried about. and in fact, they pointed out that a man who would mislead the voters wants is more than likely to do it again and again this is really such a strange moment. i mean, there really is no precedent for it. i wonder, what do you think when you think about how history may judge this moment? >> one of the problems with thinking about donald trump as a historian is that we're always talking about maybe what his biography would look like. you know, what his obituary might look like.

>> and we keep rewriting the first paragraph. >> i mean, first it's unprecedented person to become president about any government or military experience. then well as first president impeached and second time to time impeached. so i think that this trial is really going to demonstrate that it's really impressive that most presidents in american history, like the previous 44, managed to be an office and to enter office without running afoul of the law. i mean, the truth is, the founders talked about at this that the constitutional convention. the kind of person who would break the law is the kind of person that should not be considered for this kind of office. so from their perspective, simply being indicted or impeached, certainly, but simply being indicted would demonstrate a fundamental flaw in character and a fundamental flaw in a persons honore in a person's virtue. more importantly, that would prevent them from being a good president. so i have a hard time picturing the founders, thinking in any way, shape, or form about this

scenario, because they would have thought, how can americans have gotten to this point? >> yeah, and yet increasingly the polls show they are more and more apathetic about what's something like this means which is obviously incredibly curious. i'm sure for you as you look at this, jeffrey ingold. thank you so much for being with us. we appreciate your perspective and stay with cnn for some more of our special coverage. we'll be right back. >> how it really happened with jesse you, martin. sunday's at nine on cnn. sharma paid actor and this isn't a real company, but there's there's no way to fake up. >> work can help your business. >> such lent all over the world with over 10,000 skills,s you may not happen house more than 30% of the fortune 500 use upward because this that's how we work now it's treating a look at here guys were everything down to from design and products to removal and stalled collation, rebound this with you through every step of your remodel color visit rebaza.com for your free in-home design consultation

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duma daco we're here to get your sayyed of the store. >> a bribery prostitution. why do we keep ending up here? >> you can't write this stuff united states of scandal with jake tapper. now streaming on macs the de, the week now, over this week anyways, in the hush, money criminal trial of former president trump, he just spoke to cameras is 11 court. >> here's part of what he said i was i was very interested in

what took place today. >> but i just have to say we have a country di bill we have to rebuild our country has gone to hell, are a nation in decline? hi and we can, we can not let that happen to the usa. >> thank you very much all, right trump also ripped into the da and made a pitch four election day, seeing the most important day in our nation is november 5th. >> let's talk about this with our panel here he always it's very hard situation. i will say the lighting does not help much. it just so people know when they're looking at this, to try to get a sense of trump if he looks tired, sort of what his demeanor is, adi, but i wonder based on the descriptions we've heard inside of chord and what we just saw there sort of what your interpretation of how this

de, how this week has gone for trump. >> that's a lot of questions, but we'll say coming on off of his wednesday campaigning and getting back into the courtroom. he ends this week coming out not wanting to bash someone who is a longtime friend and a longtime person who worked for him, and instead uses it to campaign right and i don't know if that means he is finally hearing the judge in terms of the gag order. but it is a way that he's using his time different friendly than we had seen. let's say, in the first week. >> i mean, his whole point is what his points usually are, which is we have to rebuild the country. he said the country has gone to hell and he has lately taking the opportunity to sound more like a candidate and bash biden and bash, the democrats and he knows a split-screen has been campus protests. >> exactly. yeah. right. and so he's doing that more and more. i think he said he was interested in testimony today,

and i think he was because hope hicks had been so close to him and it was clear that while she helped the prosecution she also helps the defense. and i think he was probably pleased with that you think he really helped the defense, jim? i think she did. i think she helped the defense. last thing they heard was about michael coe was about michael cohen. i wasn't part of the campaign. he went rogue. >> he was welcome in the campaign. he only spoke on behalf of the trunk board and not on behalf campaign. those are all things she said at the end after giving very believable testimony, after breaking up a little bit on the stand and then coming back and doing those. it's the last thing a jury heard at the end of the week yeah. >> i think he would always listen to a cross-examination and say that the witness helped the defense because that's the point of cross-examination. anybody's testimony is going

to have some holes in it. again, i get back to the point we made before the break the reason why prosecutors did not question her a second time was that there was little to be gained and little new ground to be tried because these were all arguments that i think prosecution auto have been ready for, namely that michael cohen went rogue, michael cohen's got credibility issues and it's generally not fatal. so she made. the central point that the prosecution is attempting to prove, which is that number one, she knows that donald trump and michael cohen met and number two, they were mindful of the impact of these stories on the campaign. that's what the prosecution sought to get. the defense could have their way with her, but i think hinging on individual pieces of testimony, your questions thank in a five-week long trial is a great way to get yourself. >> she also made the point that trump was somebody who paid attention to the details of every everything that was going on in the campaign. everything that was going on in the campaign, and i think that's

really important because he would also pay attention to everything that was going on with karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. >> the idea that he would be detached is sort of not in character and she was painting exact very clearly, exactly. it was an emotional well day. >> and i think it's important to know some of the emotional dynamics behind her testimony two, which is that adi she was i think complementary and so on i'm ways to trump. >> but this is also someone she said she hasn't talked to him for a couple of years and after january 6, there were texts that came into the record where she'd been very critical of trump saying that he throws his private texts. he thrown away his legacy, and that they were all going to be perpetually unemployed people associated with them, which obviously made him very unhappy right? i mean, for some context here, as we talked about earlier, she has had to testify about her experiences within that white house and working for trump several times let's now, you're referring to the testimony regarding january 6

and it was reported that the trump world was unhappy when those texts went public. pick where you're supposed to be. this bulletproof shields in terms of messaging and there was revealed that they thought it was a bad day, right? no matter how it's been spun sends fundamentally, when you talk about emotion, i think it's because so much of this week has been this evidence of the banker said this then the secretary said that they're all things that just sort of establish facts and so all of a sudden to have a witness crying for whatever reason that might be. i zero interest in spec relating why, but it was a very sudden and unexpected moment for all of the people who have been watching this closely, you very dramatic ending to the day to the week and to quote the judge. all right. panel, we will call it a week. >> that will be the end of our week here. >> thank you so much. >> and we'll be right back sanity needs to safe space you

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captioning brought to you by rule or law, iconic brands up to 70% off retail at roulette law.com, at rubella you never pay full price sees the deals on top before there car shot without law today today, one of former president trump's closest confidants back on the stand there was a day of drama. >> hope hicks calling the access hollywood tape damaging and a crisis for the campaign. but she also testified that at least once trump did tell her about the hush money payment at the center of this trial, trump, even becoming emotional at one point following what an insider described as a perry mason a moment when she said trump thought it was better for the hush money payments to be revealed after the election than before are special coverage continues right now on the