right now among them, nancy pelosi, the first woman elected speaker of the house south carolina congressman jim claiborne former vice an al gore, also civil rights activists like opal lee, known for her efforts to make juneteenth a federal holiday and medgar evers who is being awarded posthumously for him his leadership in the fight against segregation was murdered at his home in the scipy in 1963, also being honored, akre shell you and tv personality fill down now you may remember in 2017 when then president obama surprised biden is then vice president, with the honore coming up on sunday on state of the union public and governor doug burgum of north dakota, plus been sas, the former republican senator and current president of the university of florida on campus protests that have gripped the nation. that's sunday morning at nine eastern, again at noon here on cnn up next, our coverage continues with wolf blitzer in the situation room. wolfe has a packed show all the trump trial details in an interview with a sketch artist who has been inside the courtroom. that's the

situation room. it's coming up next greg, you news and the trump hush money criminal trial a longtime trusted aid to donald trump takes the stand. >> dan wrapping her blockbuster testimony just a short while ago, hope hicks, taking jurors inside trump world as the stormy daniels story broke and describing how trump feared allegations of sexual misconduct would hurt his 2016 presidential campaign. hicks, tearing up at one point as she faced cross-examination, were their former boss only a few feet away will take you inside the courtroom for all the key moments of the former president's historic criminal trial welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world i'm wolf blitzer with a special report in the situation room, the trump trial today let's get

right to the breaking news on hope hicks testimony in the trump hush money, hush money trial, the new revelations, the raw motion and i would all may impact the jurors deciding the former president's fate cnn's chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid, is outside the courthouse in new york for us paul us, or what prompted hope hicks to get so emotional on the stand. and what was the line of questioning them well, if that was certainly the most it's dramatic moment that we've had in this trial. >> so far. now, shortly before she broke down on the stand, she answered some questions that could be really critical to the prosecution's case. her example, she admitted that in fact, trump had acknowledged the payment was made at one point, and also so that cohen had made it out of quote, loyalty. well, if that's incredibly significant because not only is trump acknowledging his awareness at this payment was made also, the cohen made it which undercut huts the defense's argument that this was indeed some sort of

retainer for general legal services. and then she talked about the fact that this was done four for the election and that trump's appreciated that the story was suppressed ahead of the election. so this was an incredibly significant moment throughout the course of this trial. that's part of why i think we saw that emotional response quick question before i let you go, paula hope hicks testified about what you described as the panic within the trump campaign when learning about the access hollywood tape, what does she say? yeah, this is significant, wolfe, because the access hollywood tape is a key part of the timeline for prosecutors, because it reminds the jury just how much pressure there was on the trail i'm campaign in the month of october 2016 to avoid any additional stories about enlisted sexual activity from coming out and the access hollywood tape? she described it as being very damaging and

factual, said it was a full-blown crisis, something that i think there is consensus about with other top advisers in the 2016 okay. i'm pain. so it's significant that she testified on the stand about just what a big deal that was because of course, if we know that after that tape is revealed, then stormy daniels and her attorney, keith davidson they approach the trump world about getting that hush money payment all i want you to stay with us as we bring in some of our legal and political experts as well. first to cnn legal analyst karen friedman, agnifilo, who was inside the trump trial for the first time today, we should note that karen is of council for a firm that represents michael cohen, but she has no contact with cohen, does not work in this case. and there are no restrictions on what you can say about this case. karen, you said there's nothing like actually seeing this trial up-close, an in-person, take us inside the high emotions that were going on today. >> so you have to understand this is a white collar. your

case, right? white-collar cases are typically very boring, very dry, and not a lot of emotions. it's very different than say, a violent crime case where sometimes because you have a lot of tears and a lot of very graphic testimony. yet today, seeing what happened when hope hicks broke down in tears was it felt like the closest thing to a perry mason moment that you will have in a white-collar case. so it was after it was at the very end of her to have her direct testimony when they were saying when when she was admitting this evidence that was just crushing on donald trump and was very, very strong for the prosecution about how how trump said to her that he was glad that this information came out. now, instead of this is all after the the election, whose glad it was coming out. now, instead of before the election because it was so damaging that these affairs were coming out. and that's exactly what the prosecution is needed. is somebody tying

donald trump's motives primary motive? to not wanting this information to come out to the election. she also though, did talk about how how he didn't want his family to find out either. and that was additionally they are motivating factor. so i thought that it was very powerful though, for that to come out. also, she came across as very credible. she was very intense elegant, she didn't seem like she added an ax to grind. she was thoughtful. she didn't say she things that she didn't remember. she was careful to say, look, i know i might have said that in the grand jury, you're trying to refresh my recollection, but as i sit here today, i don't have any memory of that. she came across as being just very careful and thoughtful and just saying the truth. and i think it really was impactful so for her that she knew it felt like she knew that she had just certainly very damaging and she broke down. >> karen. we're told that trump turned and nauta to hope hicks with a small smile as she actually walked out of court after a de other day of ups and downs. what were the dynamics

like between hope hicks said donald trump? >> it's clear that she still has a lot of affection for him as a politician, as a businessman his family milley, his ex-wife is she really, really respect him. and as she was very respectful of him throughout her entire testimony and that came through loud and clear, which obviously makes her a very powerful witness to the jury and i think if you're donald trump, you can see that too. so, so perhaps so that's why he he did that, but it's clear. it's clear there were very close they went through a lot together. they were on the road together campaigning and they were together night and day. and so that was came across loud and clear as well. >> certainly did what more karen can you tell us about trump's demeanor today, specifically what struck me about it was how much it felt just like any other criminal case. >> you didn't see any of the

theatrical or drama that we heard about and saw in the prior civil case cases where he was combative, are fighting with the judge or standing up, walking out with the jury, or shaking his head, nodding all that kind of stuff, all the things that we heard about before he didn't see any of that. he sat there he paid attention. he'd whisper to his lawyers. they'd pass each other notes or information he seemed like it was really paying attention and careful. and the jury also seemed like they were very thoughtful and really just looking at what was happening. so it felt like any other the criminal trial at 100 centre street that i've seen hundreds of and he was acting like he was a regular defendant and it just goes to show to the judge, really, i think has kept control over this courtroom in a good way. >> good point. karen standby, but to get back to you on crushed khardori, a former federal prosecutors with us as well on cush, i hope picks was the ultimate trump insiders

shall we say? and a highly anticipated witness for the prosecution? how much did she helped build their case today? >> look, it seems like it was on balance of very good day for the prosecution. that dramatic ending that can was describing. i mean, that's the end of the week, right? ended? the de on friday. so the jurors are going to go home with her testimony at the top of their mind and that image of her on the stand breaking down at the top of there okay mind and i just want to sort of emphasize one point here concerning hope hicks is testimony about the impact on the election. this is very unique and important, obviously because she is the first trump campaign insider, but also you can see what the prosecution is doing here. we've heard from david pecker about his perspective on the relationship between the hush money scheme and the campaign and from the national enquirer, we heard from stormy daniel's is lawyer keith davidson about his perspective. now we've heard from hope hicks, right? so we have really principles involved in this transaction from every

angle, really unanimous on this point evidently. and i think that it's a key point for the prosecution and a good day for them. >> important point of d, glory is bored jurors with us as well. let's watch gloria trump's reaction outside the courtroom, just a little while ago. well watch this i'm not allowed to comment on any of that as you know, i'm under a gag going i was very interested in what took. >> place today so gloria, what does that tell you? >> and as someone who's covered, who picks and trump for that matter, what stood out to you today? >> well, what stood out to me was first of all, she was under subpoena and didn't really want to be there. and at the end of the day, i wasn't quite sure whether she was more helpful to the prosecution then to the defense because from the prosecution's point of view, she made the case that trump was a micromanager, that he was involved in new about the stormy daniels payments, et cetera. but from the defense point of view, she also made

the case that he was concerned about millennia and that this was personal and so on the one hand, she said, well, this was all about the campaign, which and on the other hand, she said, well, this was personal, which is exactly what the defense wants to say. so i think it was kind of a mixed bag for the prosecution. >> interesting. paul olympic back to you. i hope picks also testified that michael cohen tried to quote insert himself into the 2016 presidential campaign and would go quote road even though he didn't have any actual role on the campaign, how significant is that well, it's only not the first time i've heard something negative or i'd flattering about michael cohen, as i said, it seems to be the one thing that unites both sides so this case is that nobody has anything nice to say about michael cohen, but that, that is something that potentially defense attorneys could seize on because they could try to use that testimony mean it's a look, clearly he was freelancing, he wasn't

indirect coordination nor was he working on behalf of the campaign. >> so it's something that defense attorneys could potentially season she had a lot of other negative things to say about michael cohen's suggesting. when trump said that cohen paid the hush money out of loyalty, she said she didn't consider himself a very consider him a very selfless or charitable person. i mean, a lot of the other witnesses have had unpleasant, unkind, unflattering things to say about michael cohen and that's just again, making it more difficult for prosecutors who really will ultimately have to pin a lot of their case on him and karen. >> the first thing that hope pick said today was that she was nervous from what you could see and you were inside the courtroom. how we're jurors taking in her testimony, her pivotal testimony in this trial they seem to be very interested in what she had to say. they seem to be closely paying attention. and that's really what you care about is it is the jury. right. because they're the ones who are going

to be making this decision ultimately. but i think it came across the one thing that came across is that she was very authentic and seemed to be very credible gloria hope hicks made her admiration for trump very clear during the course of her testimony, she was describing working with him on the 2016 presidential campaign, saying, and i'm quoting are now he's a very good multitasker. >> he's a very hard worker. he always, he's always doing many things things at once. what do you make of that? >> well, she still likes him even though they haven't spoken to each other in the last couple of years, i don't think he liked her testimony before the january 6 committee, but i think she made the point when she's saying he's a multitasker that he was involved in micro managing in many ways the campaign. and that raises the question of if trump is a micromanager and a multitasker, how could he how could he distance himself from what michael cohen was doing

with stormy daniels? that that seems unreasonable to suggest but i think that that probably worked to the prosecution's benefit. >> interesting. and on kirsha, how did they did the trump defense team benefit from hope hicks is testimony yeah. >> i mean, i think laurie is exactly right and isolating the testimony where she said there was concern about melania, i'm sure that trump's lawyers are going to be bringing that up in their closing. and we also of course have yet another person in the parade of these witnesses talking about michael cohen being sort of self-aggrandizing and sort of slippery and dishonest person i. don't at this point. i don't know how much marginal value that adds, but it is helpful for the defense to have a parade of the government's own witnesses, basically dumping all over the star witness repeatedly and with a fairly uniform critique. so there were bright spots for the defense here. it wasn't all one sided interesting. thanks to all of you. excellent analysis is usual coming up. we're going

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and let's make a plan doubt or your house solomon in new york and this is cnn closed captioning brought to you by meso book.com if you or a, loved one have mesothelial mac will send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you 808 to one 4,000 we're following the breaking news. a very dramatic day inside the trump hush money criminal trial with some of the most significant and compelling testimony, yet from a veteran trump insider trump's longtime aide, hope hicks. let's get some insights from a sketch artist who was inside the courtroom capturing all well the key moments. christine cornell is joining us now from outside the criminal courthouse in new york. christine, thanks for all your good work. thanks very much for joining us. give us a sense. take us inside the court room today when hope hicks got very emotional, started to cry. what was it like inside the room well, you

know, hope hope told us right off the bat that she was nervous and then she was doing really very well but you know, my personal thought was when she started talking about how trump had gone way out of his way to create opportunities for her. >> and she didn't even take them seriously first, she thought he was joking but he'd really, you know, he'd really given her some substantial ways to contribute and choose i think she was personally. touched, you know, i think it hurt her to have to testify against him. >> you were there inside the room. how was whole picks testimony received? inside the room you know, she was very very she gave us lots of information. >> she didn't seem to have up to foggy memory. she was doing very well. i think those only once when she has to be di here a grand jury testimony. but she

she gave us a good picture of honestly she had daily contact with the man. she knew him, just reading as well as anybody possibly could. >> and we're showing our viewers she did get emotional. go ahead yeah. >> she didn't she didn't actually break down in tears. what's happened was is that you could hear her voice cracked a little and then she stopped talking and that she duct her head a little bit and the judge said, do you want a break? and she nodded and it was like they sent the jury out they sent her out and we all just waited a few minutes it was a job i was looking i was looking for connection between between hope and her. i'm quite sure that he was he was very moved that she was very moved. do you know i don't know if he had a good view of the jury, but how were they reacting? >> what did you observe the

jury is so engaged and i mean, they're not just attentive, they are really engaged and you can just see that there. >> you see the wheels turning when you look at them there there is alert as alert could be and it's going to be quite interesting to see how this all shakes out. >> certainly, the defense said yeah, the defense he's really feeling badly about his wife. i'm not sure that's it's really a defense but i mean, it's nice to hear it. certainly, he got hume he got humanized today what else what else christine important. what else did out to you today from donald trump's demeanor inside the courtroom you mean when she was on the s that he was

looking at her, that he was leaning forward but he was did he stop and talk to his lawyers at some point? i think he did you know, this is a troublesome witness for him because she looks she's she's very intimate i think we just lost her connection with christine, but she she's obviously very very well plugged in inside the courtroom every day and sharing those sketches with us and all of our viewers. >> thanks to you, christine, very, very pretty much up next, we'll get reaction to today's blockbuster testimony from two people who were also who also used to be in donald trump's inner circle standby for that a florida man is hospitalized, infected with anthrax sunday

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progress i'm katie bo lillis in washington. and this is cnn we're back with. >> our special report of the trump hush money criminal trial. longtime trump aide, who picks testifying today about what she described as the crisis inside the 2016 trump presidential campaign as the access hollywood video tape, the story broke shortly before the presidential election joining us now to former trump world insiders, david urban, former trump campaign adviser, and olivia troy, a former homeland security adviser to then vice president mike pence, david, you worked at the 2016 campaign with hope much of her testimony today focused on the quote crisis around that axis hollywood video tape. what were your takeaways from today with your experience working for

trump in mind yes. >> so wolfe, i was there. i was i was there during that during that weekend in october when that access hollywood tape came out and it was a crisis. is alluded to it was a lot of nervousness amongst the campaign and in which passed in the coming days. but it was clear that hope didn't want to be there. she was there under subpoena she is very fond of the former president, as was evidenced, she was got a little choked up there. i think the gravity of all probably probably hit her. she's hope is incredibly competent professional, well-liked the president liked, or the staff liked or and she she did what she had to do. she answered the questions truthfully but i think at the end of the de is the sketch artist said you heard a sketch artist say xi humanized trump to a bit today. and i think that's got to be good for the defense in this case, for the former president, you make an important point,

olivia, you of course know hope hicks. well, you work closely with her. what was going through your mind today while following her testimony? >> i kept thinking about how hard today must have been for her to be honest look david's right. >> she worked with a lot of us on the staff. i worked closely with her, especially in 2020 during covid, many of us thought her counsel at times because she really understood trump's mentality and his thinking, she was very trusted. i know at times my own former boss, mike pence, sought her counsel and she was the person in the room that trump would turn to in meetings and bypass everyone else and say hope, what do you think? you know, when they, when they talked about her being teary-eyed, i think that was the culmination probably at her thinking of everything that she has lived in been through and just trying to balance like the moral dilemma right there, right? yeah, she's trying to tell the truth. she's trying to just be factual about what she knows

but she's also part of the circle and trying to figure out how do you protect someone that possibly care about. and in a family that you really have worked closely with it. >> and i'll say this. i don't i never saw hope hicks as a political idea log per say, i didn't see her as this stephen miller type or anybody related to that circle. i just saw her as someone who is close to jared and ivanka and trump and was just air to work with them, help them in moments of crisis. she clearly understood his dynamic and with a key player in that role, you make an important point david hope hicks said today, during her testimony that michael cohen was quote, inserting himself into the 2016 presidential campaign. she said this and i'm quoting are now he liked to call himself a fixer or mr. fix it and it was only because he first broke it that he was able to then fix it. what do you make of that yeah.

>> look, wolf, there's some audio that was played and i'm sure we'll hear more of it where, you know which which by the way, michael cohen surreptitiously recorded of him and the former president where they're discussing this this payment. and he says, no, no, no, no. i got it. i'll take care of it. i talked to out i'll take care of it. don't worry about it. and i'm sure you're going to hear that theme moving forward that he creates crises so that he could fix them and be important in the trump orbit, right and i think that's a theme that will be played out and the defense will pull that thread as we move forward. >> yeah, they certainly will. olivia whole picks was describing working with trump on his 2016 presidential campaign. in the communications area, saying, and i'm quoting are now it was just me and mr. trump who is better than anybody a communications and branding we knew what he wanted to say in how we wanted to say it. we were all just following his lead. >> what did that say to you about hope hicks is loyalty to trump? look, i think it was

unwavering. >> and in her own words, as she said, i mean, trump knows what he wants to say and he means it and he gets it out there. and i think her job was just to follow his marching orders and she would execute at, his direction. and so i think, you when it comes to that, i think this is a relationship between them that lasted several years. and when she left, i was very clear that he there was recording on that. where he didn't want to let her go. he wanted her back in his orbit because that is the one causing but not that he had in the circle that a trusted and it was it's hard to penetrate that circle. what i think towards the end, as you know, there were a lot of defections that happened and i think trump became very weary of those people. and so i think that was the beginning of the campaign. so i can only imagine like if she was his trusted confidant and the right-hand sen. that tells you just how credible her testimony is in her insights

today about what happened. and i i think i've heard either say this, i think it served both sides of the case today yeah. >> important point. david hope hicks described trump as being a very involved manager. does that help the project? hey, you should tie trump to the hush money. hush money payments in this particular case wolfe, i'm sure i'm sure the prosecution will try to paint it that way. >> right. they'll say, you heard you heard ms hicks up here saying he's very involved, but is he involved and do his own taxes as he involved in how this because it again, this is a paper case. this is about how these documents were filed is he involved at that granular level filing this report with the new york state, was he that involved that's the leap that the prosecution has to make here. and that's to convince the jurors of beyond a reasonable doubt. and i'd say that's a canyon, is wide, is the grand canyon they're going to make a big jump. i'm not sure that this testimony they

got them there david urban and olivia troy to both of you. >> thank you very much. and just ahead, there's breaking news about the 9,000 dollars donald trump owes for violating the gag orders in his hush money trial. >> that's next assignment with adi cornish. listen wherever you get your podcasts fashion moves fast, setting, trends is our business we need to scale with customer demand in real time so we partner with verizon, their solution for us, a private by gi network. we now get more control of production efficiencies and greater agility with a custom private 5g networks, our customers get what they want when they want it. now, or even smarter and are ready for what's next. >> achieve enterprise intelligence. it's your vision, it's your verizon we know it's gonna be a big change, but it's the right thing to do for all of us. it's just your mother and i

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weekday morning, cnn five things has what you need to get going with your day the five essential story of the morning in five minutes or less cnn's five things with kate bolduan streaming weekdays exclusively on max. >> we're back with ricky news on the $9,000 donald trump was fined for violating the judge's gag order in the hush money trial cnn's chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid is back with us. she's outside the courthouse in new york. >> what are you learning? apala we've learned that former president trump has paid that $9,000 fine. >> now, on tuesday, the judge in this case fine trump $9,000 so what he found were nine violations of the gag order in this case. and our colleague, kara scannell has learned that trump paid the spine yesterday and it's interesting, it was paid in two cashier's checks.

one for $2,000.01 for saturday haven't thousand dollars at the court clerk's office now we are still waiting, however, for the judge's decision on for additional alleged violations of the gag order attorneys for the defense, and the process diffusion argued about those alleged violations yesterday in court, but the judge has not rendered its decision on those violations we'll see what happens when he does are paula thank you very much for that update here to discuss that and more. >> retired california superior court judge, ladoris cordell. judge. thank you so much for joining us. as you know, judge1 were shown today. rural trump can't be asked about his violations of the gag order if he were to testify, are you surprised by that? >> not at all the gag order and the violations are separate proceeding even though there are part of the trial, technically, they're separate proceeding. >> so they really don't have any relevance to the issue that's presented at trial, whether or not there was election interference. so that's not surprising and it is the proper way ruling in my

view, it was interesting today that the judge specifically clarified that the gag order he imposed doesn't doesn't prohibit trump from testifying in this case. >> who do you think that message was directly was directed at? >> the message was directed at trump, but obviously also to his maga base. this is another example of donald trump just blatantly lying, going out in front and saying the gag order says, i can't even testify my own trial. that's absurd, but there are people who will believe anything that comes out of this man's mouth so the judge was very quick to say to donald trump, no, that's not true. that is a lie. he can testify if he so chooses. that has nothing to do with the gag order, which really brings up the point you made in your first question to me, they are two separate issues, but point the judge has yet to rule on the additional for alleged gag order violations brought up against trump this week by the prosecutor's what are you

expecting before i answer that, let me just add one thing to the testifying statement made by donald trump. >> he has been talking about how he he's going to testify no matter what. and i think he's using these most recent statements to back out of it to basically say, i'm not going to testify not because i don't have the courage to do it or i've changed my mind, but the judge won't let me i think that's another purpose for his saying that now, with regard to the for violations before the judge, i believe the judge will may not find a violation. his talking about michael cohen, why the judge issued the gag order to keep donald trump from intimidating witnesses. that's one of the reasons. well, michael cohen has been intimidated because trump even retaliated against him. his people did and hadn't put back in jail for putting out publishing a book. >> so if the purpose is not being served, that is michael cohen is just responding back

their appears to be not that intimidation. >> he might find there's not a violation of the gag order with regard to michael cohen going forward with the others, particularly with the jury, i think the judge will find violations and if that were to happen we know the options. the options are $1,000 fine for each violation or go to jail in my view, the judge will probably impose the fine again and the judge has already lamented the fact that he can't increase the fines because the statute in new york is such that he can't do that and you think it's unlikely he would actually send trump to jail if he continues to violate the gag order well, i think he will actually impose a jail sentence, but not for these for violations or three, however many fines because they occurred before the judge issued the statement to trump's saying going forward you do this again. >> you are looking at incarceration. so i think going forward, absolutely. the judge

is looking at that and i don't believe if the judge does this, and i hope actually, if there was another violation that's the only thing the judge can do. it's not going to disrupt the trial if the judge says, i'm going to sentence you to jail, but i'm going to impose at the conclusion of the trial. so there won't be any disruption, but trouble have this hanging over his head for the duration of the trial. >> and if he were to send trump to jail during the course of the trial, that would totally disrupt the trial, right? >> absolutely. so then when again, it depends on how much time he gives him. if he says to trump, you're going in on the weekend then that wouldn't be a disruption of the trial. that's a possibility. but i think the judge won't because that's the time that trump's spends campaigning. and the judge is trying, i guess, balance these his. own trump's own first amendment rights. >> so it could be disruptive that's why i think you won't do it right during the day when there's trial.

>> and so the weekends or possibility, but i think the better way is just impose it at the end of the trial. >> at one point, judge, would you as a judge? consider actually jailing the former president of the united states you know, it's, it's not rocket science wolfe. >> i mean, if someone comes into my court and there consistently violating the orders of the court. and i only have the options of finding the person and that's doesn't seem to have any traction. that's the only i think live it's not a deal so with regard to trump, yeah, they'll find a cell where he can be in solitary confinement and he's not going to like it, and jail isn't a place to be liked, is where you don't want to go, which is why hopefully it will be a deterrent. but i just don't think that we should make this a big deal. this, judge is not being reluctant. this judge, marchand, he's being deliberate. he is covering every base so that when he does make an order saying you're going to jail, i believe it's going to be

appeal proof, meaning he will have done everything you could possibly done before saying, okay, you're going in and maybe that will have the effect on donald trump excellent analysis. >> thank you so much former supreme court superior court judge ladoris cordell. appreciate it very much. just ahead, the president of columbia university, just releasing a new video message in the wake of this week's turmoil on the campus, we're going to tell you what she said that's every piece some evidence tells a story how we really happen? >> jesse l. martin sunday's at nine on cnn and the furniture business, things move fast. ziprecruiter helps us hire qualified candidates who kippah, we needed a project manager yesterday, we posted a job on ziprecruiter and had our guy on-site and five days he was qualified and everyone zip

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buy one line of unlimited, get one free for a year with xfinity mobile! plus, save even more and get an eligible 5g phone on us! visit xfinitymobile.com today. up for free because it otter.ai ai or download the app. >> i'll rafael romo at the georgia state capitol in atlanta this cnn there's breaking news right now. >> a new video statement just released by the president of columbia university calling the past two weeks on campus. and i'm quoting are now the most difficult and columbia's history. she also condemned protesters who quote, crossed a new line. listen to this university made a sincere and good offer but it was not

accepted a group of protesters crossed a new line with the occupation of hamilton hall it was a violent act that put our students at risk let's discuss what's going on with jay johnson. >> he's a member of the columbia university board of trustees and he served as the us homeland security secretary during the obama administration. mr. secretary, thanks so much for joining us. what's your reaction to this message from columbia university? so he's president minouche shafik. >> i supported and agree with every word i can attest as a trustee of columbia that the decisions that she faced, were among the most delicate and complex that i've seen in or out of of government. and what we brought to the considerations here, or several overriding principles will one is that no constitutional right is absolute, are unqualified and particularly with regard to the first amendment, freedom of speech whether you're a

university, a city, a town, or a village, or is your last segment alluded to regarding gag orders someone has to be in a position to regulate time, place, and manner for the exercise of free speech. the other overriding principle here, wolfpack is that a university, a university president, and the trustees as well have an overriding responsibility to the safety and welfare of all students and the university itself. when you're 18 or 19 it is still the case that parents expect universities and colleges to keep their kids safe when they send them off to school. and as dr. sure. feca alluded to things escalated earlier this week, to criminal vandalism occupying hamilton hall, and that left us with no choice. we brought in the police at our request. i'm happy to say that the nypd is among the most professional police forces in

the world and they conducted the ration to remove the protesters from hamilton hall with remarkable professionalism and it's an attest, it attests to their remarkable work. >> so you clearly, we're comfortable with the police response at columbia university in new york. >> and what about other universities across the country where students and faculty have been reported? according what they described as excessive uses of force by law enforcement. >> well, i'll say it this way. wolfe each university situation is unique it's unique and its dynamics in the diversity and anytime you introduce law enforcement the police to a campus, a college campus, where tensions are high. >> there's a huge risk, there's a huge risks that violence could, could escalate, get out of control. someone is hurt and we were mindful of that earlier this week when we asked the police to come on to

the columbia campus. but fortunately in the case of columbia and i can't speak to other universities the nypd conducted themselves with remarkable professionalism interesting, as you know, president biden yesterday condemn the campus protesters as simply going too far. he also said, these protests have changed nothing about his policies toward israel. is he doing enough, you think to lead the country during this very, very challenge? plunging time. >> my answer is yes. and my concern is there is a very, very legitimate issue around the plight of the palestinians in gaza. and with what we've seen on college campuses my concern is that we in america are losing sight of the very reason why some people began to take to the streets to demonstrate a number of protestors are our non-violent. they're well-meaning. they want to highlight the plight of the palestinian people. my fear

is that an anti-semitism that concerns about antisemitism are being lost in the current escalated climate here in this country let's hope things calm down former secretary of homeland security j johnson. thanks. is usual for joining us. >> thank you. >> coming up, there's more breaking news and the trump trial as our special report continues with new reaction to hope hicks his testimony from a former member of the january 6 select committee, and a deep dive into hope hicks is personal and professional relationship with the former president trump hush money trial gavel to gavel coverage, the only cnn can bring it to you. legal insight expert analysis, and real-time updates live from the courtroom follow the facts, follow the testimony, follows. cnn everywhere, but the seed the seed is 11 get it. you love your bike. we do too. >> that's why we're american number one motorcycle insurer. but do you have to wedge it and

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altered my brain chemistry, new hands-free sketcher slip ends. >> it's likes lipids have an invisible built-in shoehorn, so my foot slides into place its mind blown gregory news in the trump trial, the biggest name witness yet, longtime trump aid hope hicks, testifies about the stormy daniels hush let me payment at the center of this criminal case, describing a crisis or word, a crisis within the 2016 trump campaign and shedding tears on the witness stand. >> stand-by for new firsthand accounts of the trial, as donald trump watched his former employee and trusted confidant get very emotional while testifying against him for the next hour, we'll take you inside the courtroom from gavel to gavel break down all of today's most it's important developments and look ahead to what's next. welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer with a special report in this room th