challenges that you faced in your teenage years. and obviously basically not like some of what you're reporting on here. but but but a part of your life that makes it it seems possible for you to relate to some of the struggles people are going through. >> i certainly relate to the instability. so as i write in the pages of the book some of my teenage years in my 20s were rife with instability. i was broke much of the time. i didn't know where i would be living sometimes a month from, then. and so i understand having to rely on the kindness of friends and acquaintances and sometimes strangers. and i really relate to that beautiful community where it's the generosity of strangers at these food pants trees that allow for people to make it through their periods of instability and how important that community, the people are buying and providing that food for others in their community. allison, thank you so much. >> thanks so much. >> and thanks so much to all of you for joining us. ac30 60

starts now good evening. >> welcome to our continuing special coverage of the trump new york hush money trial. i was privileged which to watch some of day 11 inside the courtroom. today was both fascinating was fascinating to see up close. hope hicks, once a top advisor to former president, testifying for the prosecution recounting first the access hollywood tape coming out, then the stormy daniels and karen mcdougal revelations finishing her direct testimony with a potentially damaging account of what the former president's said in retrospect when the daniel story finally broken 2018, then moments later, hope hicks started crying. hicks in that final answer saying, quote, it was mr. trump's opinion that it was better to be dealing with it now and that it would have been bad to have that story come out before the flexion, which could bolster the prosecution case that the former president was motivated by campaign and not necessarily family concerns and suppressing both that and the karen mcdougal stories before the

2016 election, under cross-examination, though she did paint her old bosses of family man who was concerned about the impact on his wife her testimony and michael cohen also provided fodder for both sides. frankly, painting him as someone who had sometimes in her words, go rogue, but also casting doubt on the defense theory that cohen paid off stormy daniels on his own initiative in general, the picture she painted was a hands-on donald trump deeply involved in the details of his business and his case campaign motivated largely by political considerations, and that he was fully aware of what the payment to stormy daniels had bought him in 2016 we've just gotten the full trial transcript from today, including the context of hope hicks is final answer to the prosecution question about what then president trump said in 2018 when news of the daniels payout finally broke and i'm quoting now from that transcript, he wanted to know how it was playing and just my thoughts and impinge opinion about this story versus having the story a different kind of story before the campaign, had michael not made that payment?

joining us once again tonight, new york defense attorney arthur aidala, cnn's laura coates, who was also in the court for today. i'm particularly for that moment, cnn's abby, phillip, and kaitlan collins, also former trump white house communications director or farah griffin, and cnn's kara scannell, who has also in court throughout today, careless. start with you. i mean, it is fascinating. this is my first time you've been in there every day and in the overflow room as well to see it all up close. >> what was your sense on how things went with hope hicks? >> i mean, i think she gives something to both sides, something to work with there, but i thought was very interesting that her testimony is how she's recounting this she is taking jurors inside the campaign and into some memorable moments, walking into the glass conference room where she's discussing the access hollywood tape, a donald trump, right when she found out that it happened, also take them onto a plane when trump was speaking a campaign rally and she was contacted by the wall street journal. they were gonna go public with their story just four days before the election, saying that ami had paid off karen mcdougal and stormy

mcdaniel. so she's giving the jury memorable moments that usually underscores some credibility there because the person is remembering a moment in time where they were and what she was also saying about michael cohen, that she didn't think that he would behave the way that donald trump was telling her that he did this essentially out of the kindness of his heart. but she did so give trump sayyed some. things. she was very complimentary to him she went out of her way to be complimentary, calling him a great businessman. there was no better messenger than him know better brand person than him. but all the while, never making eye contact with him, keeping her eyes locked on the prosecutor or looking at the jury to speak from the moment she walked in because i was there for the first part for the moment she walked in, she did not look at the defense table at all, and we should point out she was there under subpoena. >> yeah. she's there under subpoena and you could see when she walked in the room shader hand and tight ball of a fist shoes clearly so uncomfortable. and she even interrupted her own testimony in the beginning

to say that she was surprised by the sound of her own voice from the microphone, like really just uncomfortable about me. she said that she was very nervous and they suggested that she sit closer to the microphone and once my understanding was from sitting there is one she actually could hear herself in the microphone it seemed to help her in which she said to the jury, oh, now i can hear myself now. >> i sort of i apologize for for my nervousness essentially. >> yeah. and i mean, we were talking about four. she was touching her hair, touching our face legis a lot of nervous kind of text to show that she was uncomfortable sitting there even as she's saying some things that are helpful to donald trump the prosecution ended their her testimony with that line that you just read talking about how trump had set in 2018, he was happier to deal with these stories, than it would have been if it was before the election. >> so laura, you were there for that moment. and then she started to cry, explain what happened so this was right in the moment between the direct examination ending and then the cross beginning. >> that's when a meal well, they got up. >> it wasn't immediately clear the weight of that particular

statement because she'd given other statements before it articulate that he was a family man. >> he was concerned about his wife. there was at least one point where she described that. he did not want his wife to have the newspapers delivered to their residents in light of the bad coverage, which of course makes you think so malign and gets up in the morning and she's read the newspaper so that he could concern and that he was concerned about that he valued her opinion, all these different things. and then this moment hit. and then there was a transition between counsel when she began to be answered questions. with someone else, and then her body just change. who's already very soft-spoken i had not seen her in person, had not heard her speak. she did fidget quite a bit with her that because with her earrings with almost like a nervous tic touch your hair a lot, but her body language, even at that point, exponentially got more uncomfortable. and she began to have a shaky voice. her lip was quivering, her chin was as well and then she's scored a turned her face for a second and began to have revoice break, at which point a mill beauvais hold his hands up for a second almost like a i am not sure what just happened in this moment. and

she began to cry and then he says, do you need a minute and she turns her whole body a way to remember trump's over here. the jury's over here and she's turning her by towards a jury to realize they can still see her and she's turning even more to contort yourself, at which point she says yes i do. and she's visibly crying now and there's a tissue box behind it is a bailiff next year and courtroom was kinda trying to figure out in this moment what was the initial trigger now there's two schools of thought. either some would say she must have understood the weight of her testimony. others could say, do you know when you're talking to the prosecution and you're the prosecution's witness. they're friendly to you. they are. hey, have prepped you in some way not to lie, but to prep you to prepare you for this moment. they've talked to you through your nerves, so there you're friendly person when the defense counsel gets up to then cross-examine you and their client is donald trump, a man that you've called a master communicator, somebody that you are probably well frayed of their ability to make sure that someone knows you're fully history. i think that weight of the combination was what may

have combined to hamper be overwhelmed. >> we should point out though, that she's not a prosecution witness i mean, it or do you believe she's a prosecution witness? whole heart, and she's there under subpoena. a lot of the words she was using to discuss bribe her reactions. i thought were conservative. >> what she does, she used the word concern when the what was her response when she first got the washington post reported her? yeah. she said, oh, i was concerned. it's a little bit more than concern, but that was the word she was using and i thought that's that's a conservative you word to use your right to say, i mean, i think people have the impression every time a witness goes on the stand that you're either going to be the attack dog and bulldog or you're going to be the shrinking violet. every witness has a role to play in some time. it's just to move the story along and bridge the gap between the catch and kill and the campaign i was her role. >> this is a multi-layer. i mean, there's a lot of emotion in her relationship and you know, this better than anybody else said with her emotion in her relationship with donald trump. this is a man who she

was out four years out of college when she started working for the trump organization. right. so what you have to understand about hope hicks and having had some time to digest this testimony, there is nowhere on the planet she wanted to be less than were to us today. she did not want to be testifying against a boss that she clearly still holds in very high regard. she's still incredibly close with his family she i'm going and listening to her answers and reading the transcript back. i think she was as gracious as she could be about him as a few severe, she could be will still being honest and truthful about the facts. so it's the stark moment was when she acknowledged that he basically said it's better that it didn't happen during the campaign. >> that's probably the hardest piece of evidence she gave against donald trump. >> but there was a ton in there for the defense, and i think that was by design and the fact that trump acknowledged her when she left was sort of this she did well by donald trump i think it's easy for people who've never testified in a trial to say, oh, she was crying because of the statements she made and then she realized the impact of that statement. >> i mean, i've testified in a

trial of a stalker against me and i found myself choking up on the stand totally unexpected effectively, like as much as you are prepared to testify at trial it when you're sitting there and there's a jury there, and it's personal stuff it's very hard. i mean, arthur, you must see this all the time i was a witness recently and it was weird. >> it was against the client but to your point, as much as public speaking, how can i anderson cooper get nervous being a public speaker in a courtroom? it's a completely situation when you raise your right hand. but from a legal point of view, and i don't know if this is true or not. there's nothing stopping trump's attorneys to having spoken at hope hicks in other words, she's under some peanut from the prosecutor's office, but it's absolutely appropriate for them to call her up and say, hey i'm susan nicholas who i am. can i talk to you about your testimony? that's nothing that's on unethical. it's not improper. >> i don't know if that happened or not, but she

clearly was not there to hurt donald trump she was there to do what she had to do. >> and yet there is the weight of the world on you when you're end the whole world is watching. >> she taught me happy, talk. you heard like from so that that's the thing that it's so interesting so glad i was there, i'm so glad that we have three people who were the all of us were there did it because what you don't see until you're sitting in that room, are you what do you don't here? >> you don't realize is we see this on television and we think it's all like we see on television of everybody knows their jobs. but there is a motion there. there is a feeling in the room and that feeling ebbs and flows and when the prosecutor stood up, nobody knew who was going to be called today. and the first early testimony was kind of procedural and not particular. i can understand why some people might fall asleep in the room and suddenly the prosecutor stood up and just very matter of faculty said next, is hope hicks there was a

instantly like an invasion of cicadas in the room you heard you heard this you heard an entire gallery full of people, everybody with their laptops. >> he's not allowed to have your phone out suddenly doing this. and it was this it was a incredible. and every time there was something significantly six significant that she said during your testimony, you could tell what was significant by the crescendo. >> so let me just tell you from that yes yeah. i thought from a warrior's point of view, when you're sitting there just because of can you hear that 100% and so sometimes you have to like what i miss hi, the type and i go, i'd sounds like a benign answer because somebody there was some reporter in the room. i'm not sure who was who said i think said that there was an audible gas. i didn't hear that in the courtroom. i was i think i was sitting behind the reporter who said that repose in the overflow overflow where there are billions, there were

regular get our people and the overflow room would not again not a gas. >> regular people. >> there wasn't again, inside the courtroom, but what there was was i mean, it was incredible. suddenly everyone was n. when she walked in, i mean, it was just other things about hope hicks. i cannot get out of my head she has not taught to donald trump in two years, 2022 and with trump, people, you have to get used to having multiple things in their brain at the same time. it's a complicated relationship. it doesn't mean that they hate each other or anything like that, but she is not talked to this man in two years and there she is sitting in front of him in a courtroom. i also think about all the other times that we've heard about hope hicks are seen her she provided testimony to the january 6 committee behind closed doors in a deposition room. we saw the video of it, but she was not before the world really. she testified in the molar investigation not before the world. there were so many times and hope hicks was at the

center of these incredible dramas in trump world, but never like this. and that is so different for her personally, but also for their relationship. and you also think about in the january 6 contexts the parts of her the evidence that they presented in the hearing that came from her where she was afraid about her livelihood after january 6 happened? some things happened between them that they it sounds like they probably haven't really dealt with. and she this is this is yet another thing that she's going to have two once again, deal with donald trump about at some point. >> well, i think there's a reason that they haven't spoken in those two years that period that she said today of why that was that was when the congressional hearings were happening and that's when we found out that she had spoken to them and you've got to actually hear her testimony to them and you got to read her texts and her texts on january 6 were really critical of trump

saying that he was wiping away everything that they had done she obviously was in the white house left and right turned and she was also saying that people who didn't have jobs lined up, we're now going to be labeled domestic terrorists. they weren't going to be able to get jobs. it calls a huge break with her and with ivanka trump, she doesn't have a good relationship with the trump family anymore. >> i don't by the way, she started working for the trump family through ivanka trump. that was the initial entrance. >> she came back to january 6, when she came back to the white house, she worked she reported to jared kushner and so she was a daughter, to donald trump. i mean, the fact that they haven't spoken in two years is incredibly significant. she's not coming back to help with this campaign. and i think also we talk about what her reaction was in the room she hasn't seen him in two years, has been in the same room. and as i don't think it's that weird that she didn't look at him. i mean, you'd have to really kind of cool brian, your neck to look over because he's seated to the right of the witness, but it speaks to the break and their relationship that the first time that they were reunited is in a criminal trial. you know, what? >> i'm sorry. but i was looking when she started crying, my maybe i'm nosy i

immediately wanted to see what trump would do. >> it was that moment when the security it's clear it away and i had a clear shot of donald trump's face as i've is profile. and we looked over because she then left the stand to walk away from i'm adjusting her hair almost as a shield and she walks over and walks behind them, doesn't make eye contact, but his face is one of concern. his eyebrows were raised towards her as you would look at somebody concern is if to ask are you okay? and i thought in that moment it was an interesting moment given the advent two years, he didn't seem like he was looking like almost incredulous that she would have the audacity to have the emotion. he seemed as if this was someone he was concerned about in that moment, i was just going to say everyone in trump world as expendable with, i would say hope hicks is among the few exceptions always had genuine affection for her. i think that seeing her in this position being reminded of the relationship that broke, i think is very different than virtually any other person who he could easily throw under the bus. there was a real closeness in that relations we've got to take a quick break. there's something else i want to talk about. really, it's kinda stuff

really stunned me in the courtroom today. and also we'll talk about hope hicks is tested jim, one about the access hollywood tape coming out before the 2016 election what can they trump told me at the time and what the prosecution hopes to gain from bringing it into there case plus a jury consultant joins us with his taken with jurors made of hope hicks on the stand well, done viv you got the presence, the balloons, and the raptor cake. >> now how about something to put a smile on your face aspen dental provides complete affordable care with dentists and labs in one place, plus free exams and x-rays for new patients without insurance and 20% off treatment plans for everyone quality care at a price worth celebrating its one more way, aspen dental is in your corner? >> smile you found it the feeling of findings, psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered

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don't wait- call today. show powering progress, i learned thoughts on capitol hill and this in court today. >> is part of the prosecution's attempt to show then candidate trump's motivation for paying off stormy daniels. hope hicks was asked to describe the campaign damage control when news of the access hollywood tape first broke, followed by the tape itself itself, it happened shortly before the presidential debate. it was the second presidential debate. i coma moderated abc's martha raddatz, that was back in october of 2016 during debate prep, the access hollywood tape occurred on a friday. the debate was on a sunday when the access hollywood tape came out for our debate prep it completely changed the way we approached this debate. and obviously the first question of the debate became about the access hollywood tape. take a look we've received a lot of questions online. mr. trump,

about the tape that was released on fridays. you can imagine you called what you said locker room banter. you describe kissing women without consent, grabbing their genitals. that is sexual assault you bragged that you have sexually assaulted women. do you understand that no, i didn't say that at all. >> i don't think you understood what was that this was locker room talk i'm not proud of it. i apologize to my family. i apologize to the american people. certainly i'm not proud of it. oh, but this is locker room talk just for the record though, are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without concern. >> i have great respect for women. nobody has more respectful women than i do. >> so for the record, you're saying you've never did things that frankly you hear these things are said. and i was embarrassed by it. >> but i have tremendous respectful when have you ever done the have respect for me and i will tell you, no, i have not. should point out this was a town hall debate that was the format. so there was actually

an audience question which began the debate. and then as soon as i was able to ask a question that was the first question from either of the moderators back now with the panel starting with kara canal is on transcript duty tonight let me just jump in. one thing that really stood out to me today is just how alone donald trump is in that room. i mean, for a guy who is surrounded by people all the time, he walks in. there's no there was i mean, i know eric trump was there one day. i think it was last week. there's no family with embossed. epstein was with him, but sitting two rows back he had to secret service agents, i think sitting behind him but they were not in control of that room. the court officers were very much in control of that room and it's the court officers who are behind directly behind him and around him and control everything in that room. >> yeah. i mean, those court officers are protecting that walkway that separates were all of us are sitting and donald prompt and the secret service of their seated with their earpieces. but it's the security officers of that court

that are really running things. it always strikes me every time they have a sidebar at the bench, had donald trump is sitting by himself at the defense. >> does downing to see it really just gives this sense of sort of slumped over. >> sometimes there's legs sticking out and legs cross he's just this. when you see him from behind you know, he's got sort of that distinctive haircut and you'd seen from, you know, it's like watching i mean, the thing that came to mind was like watching later day elvis in vegas, like from the back, he's just this guy with it's like duckbill haircut sitting. it fascinating. >> yeah. and there's nothing he can do. so the most he does is ten notes to his lawyers and then shift in his chair, but he really at times amongst some reporters, we joke, he looks like a potted plant because he's he's can't do anything and he's not really reacting to that point when we tried the weinstein case. and that seems situation that you're talking about, the sidebar and the defendant is there all alone and you know, the juror is just an end. look as good. defend

any good defense attorney does like you tell your client they are watching your every move. and what hobby lobby started writing a movie legitimately, i'm not joking. i mean, it was we were there for i don't know, four to six weeks and so he just he just had this binder and so he just the whole time he was writing and it wasn't about the case. >> well, let me ask you he was like writing a movie though. we were sitting once in case came up before the jury came in the room today in the early morning, todd blanche actually brought up the leinz in case he was todd blanche was trying to get some evidence that the prosecution wanted and he was trying to get it not allowed in end, he referenced the weinstein weinstein ruling to judge marchand sort of saying we think you should reconsider this in light of the ones in ruling. >> and judge merchan said to todd blanche, i've looked at that ruling. they didn't make any new law i've considered all the underlying laws involved here and i'm sticking with my ruling. but it was

interesting that that you were defending harvey weinstein in that case, that was brought into the courtroom today? >> well, it's it's accurate when judge marchand said the court of appeals did not make any law, the person who tried to make new law was the trial judge by allowing and all these evidence that should not have been allowed in based on over 100 years of precedence. >> so i knew the whole time when the weinstein case was pending, and then when it came out that judge merchan was going to study that he did obviously, and look, it's a balancing test. >> the bottom line is it's in the discretion of the trial judge as to whether if the defendant testifies, what evidence would come in is probative if a particular issue of material issue in the case and whether that probative value outweighs the prejudice to the defendant is obviously going to be some prejudice that the defendant because you're bringing up another bad act but

it's a balancing test. and i don't think judge mug ruling was even before the court of appeals came down with the weinstein ruling, was so out of control. i think it was the other thing is again, from the first time i've been in the courtroom to actually observe this judge and having heard everything that the former president has said about at this judge i mean, i'd be interested here from laurie. >> you've been in front of a lot of judges. i was surprised given what donald trump has said about how crazy he is and how he listened to everything every argument todd blanche made about what evidence, what each piece of evidence he didn't want submitted. he query the process exclusion well, why do you want this? and he basically split it down the middle on many things, many he would agree with the prosecutor, with the defense not to allow certain things in the prosecution wanted and he would get them to strike other things and not submit the full piece of evidence. >> in terms of how he appeared in the core. i'm a good judge presiding over a case does not think that the problem

prosecutor or the defense or the witness or their anyone else there almost camouflaged their job is only to be involved when they are invited into the conversation through the objection process. and when that would happen, if there's an objection, he wouldn't make a big deal. he would just simply overruled. >> i'm really wish i really wish there were cameras in this court room, so everybody could see just how this has been done. don't you agree? yeah. i mean, you would understand from the public the testimony coming in the judge how he's handling this because there have been different judges handling a lot of trump's civil cases and there you do get a sense of how they handle it. >> the judge marchand is very even keeled and they're following the rules that he set out. >> he said no speaking objections. so everyone is played by the rules. that's why you don't hear a lot of this extraneous or inflammatory argument, no one is campaigning from the podium he's really got this trial under control and is keeping it moving. >> he's also made a lot of good faith efforts to make sure trump knows fully what he what's happening and to keep him a prize, including when that moment last night that we were talking about where trump said that he could not testify

because of the gag order notice. i don't think it was taken live on any of the networks, but trump, before you enter the courtroom today clarified that the gag order he said it prevented him from speaking about the case, but not testifying. and then he walks in that courtroom seconds later and the judge goes out of his way to say, by the way, which the judge has never commented on anything donald purpose get outside of that courtroom, except for the gag order violation hearing, and he said, by the way, you can testify despite this, he did it in a way that was really fascinating to me because that was ready in the morning before the jury came in, before anybody came in, he said, by the way, i think there has been maybe a misunderstood i'm paraphrasing. i think there's been a misunderstanding. i just want to make sure your client knows that it is absolutely his right. he can testify nothing in the gag order went on in a very sort pleasant where it was just i thought it was a very interesting mr. trump, three morning. i mean, he good afternoon. >> is kara noted? i mean, he is very he's up bending over backwards. i wouldn't say he doesn't seem a few sieve or anything, but he's really polite to donald trump and trump, attacked him again today

saying that he was trying to introduce salacious things into the hearings i mean, i don't really know what he was referring to, but trump is going to continue to attack this, judge, no matter what and judge marchand is, it seems to me very aware of trump trying to use him as a foil. and it's trying to not give him a reason to do that. it seems to me both from a this is a case that's being watched for the whole country. but even from my legal perspective the idea that a defendant might not know whether trump was lying or not willfully lying or not. >> the idea that he might not know that he can testify, make sense to me that the judge would want to make sure that he understands. >> he's got the same rights. everybody else does to testify if he wants to. >> i think trump was like he knows that is the testimony and then there's mama testified the camera home irregularly. he was trying to testify in ran the camera bad things, but the judge gave him a heck of a ruling today at the end is that it as remember it was a sandoval hearing, a fancy way of saying, i'm gonna put you

on notice for anything i intend to bring up and cross-examine you want if an if you testified, one of those things they wanted to add on was the recent contempt gag order violations. they wanted to say, judge, we want this jury to know about what you have ruled recently on a nine of the ten things. and this judge listened to todd blanche, who said, your honor, this would be hugely prejudicial. these jurors come in every single day. they look at you if the reasons you articulated anderson composed and triage the courtroom but he who they're respecting your there every single day and you're gonna give them the news that you don't like him all of a sudden, he said, i agree it's up to worsen. >> you don't like him. you've already convicted him of crimes. it's even know that was the total right. ruling. and just anderson of the three cases with judges, the federal case with e. jean carroll the attorney general, new york case. and this case, by far, he is getting the best strouhal, the most fair trial with judge mark. >> and i got to say just watching the jury today. i mean, they are paying attention. i've testified from

juries and it looked like two jurors and some of them look like they just did not want to be there and warning, paying attention and it's really deflating when you're doing that's fine but they all of them were watching and paying close attention, some taking notes as fast or you're not a former president of the computer friends? yes. exactly mistake with this coming up more on the impact of opex is testimony jury consultant joins us, discuss her credibility as a witness and how the jury might interpret for her crime. love your it's really been a gift having mom live with us but as a nurse, my training told me she needed more help than i could provide. >> so a connected with the place for mom, my senior living advisor. understood. are unique situation. she quickly records amended communities and set up tours. a place for mom helped us get to a decision. and now mom is so well c for. >> talk to an expert senior living advisor today at no cost to your family, how could anyone possibly know that every

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next event or inspire your team, for certain when the jinx came out, i thought, oh, my god, when bob has a friend, he expects blind loyalty rabbi's and certified i want to talk more about what was probably the most memorable moment from today's testimony. >> hope hicks, a top aide to candidate and then president trump, crying right after the prosecution finished, and justice cross-examination began. even before her testimony began, she looked visibly uncomfortable when she came into the witness box, in the morning telling the court quote, i'm really nervous joining us to talk about the impact ever testimonies were nanos to build an attorney as well as the jury in trial consultant, i'm wondering what you make of how hopes hope hicks did particularly the her crying, how that might have

played with the jury yeah. >> look, i mean, it's never good for an attorney when the witness starts to cry, but i don't think emil bove de really did anything. i mean, she's under a lot of pressure. she's under a lot of stress. it was just a natural moment. it wasn't something that was solicited because of the questioning. so i don't think it's really going to have a big impact on if a witness cries versus a defendant. it's probably a very different thing. >> yeah i mean depending i mean, some defendants do break down and cry. no. kyle rittenhouse, for example, took the stand and he was very emotional and that obviously had a major impact on the jury. i mean, i don't think you're going to see donald trump taking the stand and crying necessarily. but i think people sympathize with hope hicks. i think she came across very credible i thought that was a very natural moment for her and it wasn't contrived at all. shovan moment, but not why do you think it's a problem if a defense attorney cross-examined a prosecution witness and brings them to tears because

you look like a bully how about you caught them in so many lives that they break it down on the stand while you're breaking their constitution is taking them out. we'll mean what do you want to go, bulldog on? >> hope hicks? no, of course not. if it's somebody appropriate. right. maybe a david pecker, michael cohen, if he starts crying fine that'll be told. they would love that. >> but you have to pick your moments and a witness like hope hicks, who obviously she's there under subpoena. >> she doesn't want to be there. she's being forced to be there. you can't go after it. also very interesting. uh, you had talked about strategies of defense attorneys and prosecutors about when they put a witness on right before the weekend, who do you put on? so do you put on somebody that you want the jury to think about all weekend? >> i mean, the jury has a lot to think about this weekend. >> i mean, they are relatively short witness. >> my point was yesterday, hypothetically, let's just say they did all direct today and a little bit across i mean and some there has been plenty of times where i have tapped,

danced, talking about being in the theater at the end of the de on a friday or the end of the day at any de to give me overnight to prepare my cross-examination for the next morning. the biggest tool the prosecutor has in their toolbox is the element of surprise. most of the time, i don't know what the witnesses going to say exactly. maybe i have some great jury minutes, but it's different when they're on the stand. so if you could get overnight or over a weekend. but here she kinda thing get out. and i think you probably was good for the prosecution the way it left off and they went into the weekend the way they did wasn't there let's it in your mind that i mean, obviously you never want ask a question that you don't know the answer to. >> but i was surprised that the defense council did not move obey. >> did not get insight as to why she was emotional. it could have gotten one of two directions. it could have been dared him to the jury because he's now concerned that she just had to leave the courtroom because she was overwhelmed many other side, there could have been maybe she was having favorable as in, you know, what, i really don't want to

be here. i respect him so much. i just thought this is the last place i want to be. it was like just out there for the jury to speculate as to what happened. yeah. you're right. i mean, i think the problem was he didn't know what she was going to say. and you're absolutely right. you never want to ask a question that you don't know the answer to. but i think she was really a mixed bag. i don't think she was totally credible. she didn't seem to have an agenda for either side, but there are good things for the prosecution. there are good things for the defense, net-net i. think she's better for the defense yet because she made michael cohen sound like a mac and anderson, you know, it's one thing to have a cooperator on the stand who's got some kind of history, some kind of baggage, but it's another thing where every prosecution witness so far has thrown michael cohen under the bus and to be able to stand up and summation would be like you don't have to trust me and my opinion but peter said this that would say there's hope said this. these are their

witnesses, these are know where it is, is these are ways that she made michael cohen sound like a smock was good for the prosecution she said, there's no way michael cohen would have out of the goodness of his heart, done this. it had to have been done because he was doing it for his boss with his that was the strong implication in that piece of testimony, which i think michael she was clear. he's he is not a reliable person. he's not a nice person, not a good person, but he would not do this on his own. >> her key line was he liked to call himself a fixer that was because he broke it first and then he had to go that was a damaging lied to him. but the one thing the point that she made about the trump organization and how it ran, i was thinking of 2016 versus 2024. and what this campaign looks like now, it was really just her she said that issues describing the trump organization, everyone in a sense, reports to donald trump that was run like a small family business. i mean, she drew a lot of direct leinz, donald trump himself, which i think was notable compared to what it looks like now, but saying he was also involved in

everything that happened in fact, that was in the early part of the morning testimony and she she went out of her way to be very complimentary about a great businessman great marketer or nobody better knows exactly what he wants to say. >> and she would run everything through him. he would just in the, way. but but she described the organization as this great business doing huge business, great business, but run like a family organization. it was a tiny organization. i mean, she's saying it's a great business, but it was basically donald trump running this whole thing. but you do have to wonder, i'm saying, if you're a jury and you've been hearing this constant just salacious things about this man where he sounds like a bit of a pig that the affairs, the innuendo there. >> and you have this buttoned up woman talking about him really praising him would genuine affection with a level of emotion showing gratitude for having kind of brought her up in her career, talking about and with this glowing praise, i think that that's incredibly helpful for the defense. i

think they're going to lean into that. the story about melania trump and you he didn't want to embarrass his family. he wanted to make his family proud. i don't personally by any of that, but i think a lot of the jurors are going i think the technical matter allegedly, she gets her news on her phone, so i'm not sure this paper would have mattered that much, but it was having outside of the hotel room, no less i i agree with you about just her authenticity. she's not a bitter witness and the more i reflect on this, i think about how we're going to get to the michael cohen's of the world and he's going to be aggrieved and angry the and there's a clear rift there and he's going to actually be talking about a lot of the same things that hope hicks talked about. but her testimony being there without all of that baggage where she's not coming from a place of hate, i think is actually important for the prosecution to have just to have someone there who doesn't hate donald trump, but just is telling us from a factual perspective here's what was going on at the time, were not

are you wanted to save him? >> yeah. no, i totally agree that she did a pretty good job of putting on a character case for donald trump, which normally if you're a criminal defendant and you do that, you open the door to bad character, but because she's a prosecution witness i think the other thing the whole wanting to keep this from milan from a legal perspective that was absolutely critical. you know, that was absolutely critical because one of the issues in which still debating like what's the underlying crime, nobody seems to know. we're still thinking about that, but if this was a personal payment as opposed to a payment in furtherance of the campaign that is huge from a legal perspective. and i believe the law supports that it was a personal payment. quite frankly, you're not as tibial. appreciate it. thanks, everybody. i'll stay with someone else is here who was inside the courtroom today. i was sitting behind her this morning and it's fascinating how she's helping bring this trial to live for americans, a sketch artists watching her work this morning is just amazing. the keen perspective from christine cornell next

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lets you do that. >> how would really happen with jesse you, martin? sunday's at nine on cnn? >> welcome back. i had the privilege of being in court today for the morning session and one of the more fascinating things that i saw was something i did not expect it all i was i was actually sitting right behind one of the incredible sketch artists today. actually both of the sketch artists who were extra three artists were in the room transfixed watching their work, capturing this is torque trial in pastel. christine cornell has been years inside new york courthouses and joins us now, i was watching you work today and it's fascinated because you start with a face just a sketch, and then over minutes, you bring this sketch to life. you're also wearing these like binoculars, like a special forces? no, i'm that's jane who wears some one or hit, but you had some sort of binocular. i have not killers so what do you use those for i have to get up close and get the detail

because sometimes we're just really catching a little snippet window of the mr. trump especially through all, those bodies, millennium because there's a lot of the court officers are in the way you can't get a full view of him all this. >> so you want to get as much information as you can like negative time. do. what is, what is it like drawing every day you are studying this person's face. >> i'm getting to where i can draw them for my imagination, really how do you we choose which moment i don't want. >> it's wrong how do you choose which moment from the hearing to draw? i wish i could tell you that i had lots of choices. it's just it's it's you know, it's slim pickens you see through this window sometimes he just turns and he's talking to his attorney and you go oh, gotta get it. sometimes you just have to stare at him because it's going to be so fast. that you have to memorize it and then draw it, or are you paying attention to the actual trial itself? >> i'm hearing it all. yeah, of course. >> i'm here. i'm listening to it. but what i'm not dueling is what the reporters are

doing, which is putting it together and figuring out what the weight of this particular piece of evidence is. >> you hear all the clicking of the reporters. does that annoy you? >> not in the slide is no ends if i can just say this woman is. >> a legend. i mean, i don't say that lightly. i mean, she's been around. she looks very young, which hundred in the for decades. and she has a lot of power because for a lot of lawyers like you only get one big case, right? and this is the thing that she's going to draw, is no cameras in the courtroom typically, and she's you wanna give you that moment. that's going to live in your law office or your mom's living room forever and i'm getting a kick anderson actually, out of your enthusiasm is the most u2's, yes. have you been able courtroom thing. i've seen him so many times, bring things to life. and as i've mentioned, i've more sketches of hers in my house because my team, my dad, which he sketched dozens of times on myself and it's she

has given it was fascinated because you said there and watch your colleagues name city next to you, jane jane she was closer to her. she had all the pastels laid out and i was looking at all. i mean, she had all the colors out. there, wasn't like sort of how do you paint? donald trump because there's not something would think there'd be a lot of orange, but there wasn't aren't nice. >> his human colors, you know he's he's not an unusual looking man except for there is a bright yellow that i use when i hit his hair. that is just so much fun. >> it's really seems lighter these days. >> it's fading yeah it's interesting because most of the country, there are cameras, there are videos, are photographers. we get one snapshot, but there is such an art. they make it so compelling. we were awaiting to the t your drawings and your sketches. but i wonder if you can comment on the fact that this is not happening in every courtroom or cost the country. it's really an art that is is going away more than, more often than not, tell me about why it's so important to have

it in new yorker and have it like one was like this little it protect the defendant did see it's a little bit of a shield to know the presumption of innocence. >> it's very hard to be stared. have a camera staring you down all the time. having an artist come and draw you is actually wonderful. i think we add a little bit of lightness to the whole thing and we also bring a lot of humanity to it. >> i also love that you are first in line and it's like it's rare artists get a lot of respect in society today, you are first in line. you have the best seat in the court. i mean, yes, there's people blocking you, but as far as the gallery gallery we are the eyes, you they do need our work. yeah. >> i noticed that we were just showing it. there's i don't know if it's yours, but there was a sketch that had trump but then there were the words from the access hollywood tape kind of in the background, framing his face. i thought that was just such an interesting

choice. >> so you could put those elements. yeah, i'll get a little drama making those choices about if you're going to include words, which ones you choose and and how you think through that, right? >> right. and don't fill up the space with the wrong word. so those are very, very important words i was watching you draw, drew this and then obviously when you added in the bright yellow on the eyebrows and on the hair. >> this is my friend james. >> oh, that's changed. so get it's changed. >> yeah. but those leinz those those those yellow were they were drawn at the end of it like a very, very and i saw her draw them off, you hi, to start with a little bit of a distal linear blocking it in, and then you build up from the chateau and you add lights and then the highlights for the thing that you add last, just so you know, because we do this. so then when i call her after the appearance and i'm like christina, i really want that seriously then shubi sometimes i know you've done this, you

like aren't they just sent me a picture yourself that before you liked the way you look and then you'll fix a little bit. >> and then she'll add a lot more detail if you're i'm actually paying paying for her that frame and and hang-up. >> i did i didn't do that yeah. okay. okay. >> i haven't been to 14 studio and get up there. >> and if you came to my studio, then i will always work further on you but you many times, you've sketched son of sam david virchow it's john gadi. >> you've sketched. i mean, has there been john edwards has there been a trial that really stuck out in your mind or is there have been a moment in a trial where what is being. discussed really grabs your attention or makes you emotional. absolutely your want you want my most poignantly experiences ever in court because i mean, you're a human, you're listening to all of this and the compounded weight of that, okay. i'll tell you one story this was from cosby a few years ago and there was this young woman who

was describing you know, being 17 years old. she didn't drink he gave her some white wines. you don't drink, have some white wine. next thing you know, she's in and out of consciousness and she's having these sort of little flash memory murray's which are graphic, right, head to toe, toe to toe and she, started she's crying at this point and she said you remember, don't you, mr. cosby? >> and, that was just such a jaw dropping moment in the courtroom where the witness directly addressed the defendant. in such a incredible way christine cornell, such an yeah. yeah. see, you ask me questions. you get it i wanna i

wanna i want you to draw me sunday, but i don't want to do something to make you draw i'm too boring. >> we'll be back with more reaction is the book closes on week three of donald trump's hush money trial welcome to the roots of our legacy where excellence comfort and electricity are forever in blue welcome, to beyond the mercedes my buck. he qs suv my mental health was matter, but uncontrollable movements called teeny tardive dyskinesia started disrupting like day cidi felt embarrassing i felt like disconnecting. i asked my

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