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do you want to make out or? nope. i meant yes. he's a bon garçon. i give amazing sponge-baths. can i get a room? [ chuckling ] ♪ ♪ chef's kiss. doctors preferred better science, better results i'm mj lee at the white house, and this is cnn it is just pass 9:00 p.m. here in new york, dramatic day 11 of the trump hush money trial. now in the books, former trump adviser, communications director, and onetime close confidante, hope hicks reunited with the foreign president by a prosecution subpoena, or testimony establishing his awareness after he became president of how much he politically benefited by paying for stormy daniels. silence before the 2016 election, whether her tears, which followed were related to her answer on that or just came from the

accumulated intention of being on the stand, the emotion of the moment is impossible. say whether the de was it significant, dramatic end to week three of this historic trial. that is hard to deny. joining the panel for this, our cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig. elie, we haven't heard from you what stood out to you today. >> well, here we are at roughly what iss to be about the mid point of this trial. we're about halfway through. i think if i'm the prosecutor and i like to think about things this way, i very satisfied with certain elements my case, but i'm also very worried about other elements. here's what i think they have. >> wrong clearly, donald trump knew about these hush money payments. >> i don't think there's any real question. clearly, he wanted the money to be paid and it's quite clear to me and hope hicks, i think solidified this today, that it was for a political reason. yeah, there was a family concern too, but there also was a substantial political reason that's the good news the problem is there's nothing so far in this record as it stands now tying donald trump to the accounting behind the fight the financing of those payments. and that's the crime. and it's starting to look increasingly like the only actual link they're going to

have showing that yes, donald trump knew the way we structured these reimbursements with all the checks to try to make it look like legal fees. it looks like the only link is going to be michael cohen and boy, i've never seen a witness take on more damage before he stepped in the stand, then michael cohen has taken on every single witness. has said he's a horrible person. he's a liar. i don't think the other piece of evidence is the actual checks that trump's sayyed. the checks help, but they don't answer all the questions. i mean, there's so many responses to that. does he know exactly what he's paying for? why is michael cohen extracting triple the amount that he paid, paid $130,000. he gets paid back over $400,000. what did michael cohen tell them who's going to be able to testify to that. i think the checks are helpful to the prosecution, but they don't get them to the finish line. >> so let me just explain how a confidentiality agreement works in the real-world, not what someone was running for president, but let's talk about a very real scenario. my phone rings, it's some dude who cheat on his wife and now the woman says, i want money,

or i'm telling you wife we say, you go get a lawyer. she gets a lot. so there's lawyer the lawyer were talking to each other. there's a written i have them. they like reforms that it's a confidence sheds gag order basically and we're going to give you this amount of money over this amount of time and you can't say anything. and if you do this treble damages, so if we give you 1 million and you squeal, now how are you going to give us 3 million the husband doesn't write the check to heart the husband right. to check to my law firm. my law firm puts it in the escrow account and sometimes my legal fee is built in there. so hypothetically, if it's 100 grand and my legal fee is 10,000, he writes uncheck to $110,000 and the law visited like dollar opportunity in cabins. it goes in my escrow account 10,000 goes into my operating account, and then i write out the jet from the aidala petunia and cabins il or account to her lawyer. he puts it in his escrow account and then he pays her. that's all ethical, legal and there's nothing wrong with it. >> i think what the prosecution is going to say there was a difference is that donald trump

was running for president and they falsified these documents in order to hide the fact that it was hush money. but again, i don't think the proof is there yet that he knew about this level of granular detail. >> the fact that he signed the check, that's not the crime. >> the bookkeeping is the crying. >> i wasn't suggesting that signing the check was the crime, but rather that it indicates that he understood that this was a repayment for the scheme that he was going to get $35,000 over the course of a period of time. i mean, i also think that just the idea that trump simply could have done what you suggested. i think we wouldn't really even be dealing with this but but michael cohen took out a loan on his house, paid in advance, waited until after the election to be repaid. i mean, there was an attempt to conceal this arrangement from the public. i think that is pretty clear based on just the timeline of things that happen. we'd gotten the full testimony now for the transcript a nackerud, you've been looking at

anything stand out? yeah. i mean, i think at the moment, if we look at 20:18, this is after michael cohen gives a new york times a statement and says that he paid the uh, hundred and $30,000 without donald trump knowing and then hope hicks is testifying about the next day she talks a donald trump and that he's telling her about his, his conversation you should with michael cohen. so what she testifies to is this is when being questioned by the prosecutor, she said, i didn't know michael to be in especially charitable person um, or selfless person. he's the kind of person who seeks credit. the prosecutor said, did mr. trump's say anything else about this issue when he told you that michael made the payment? just that he thought it was a generous some things to do and he was appreciative of the loyalty that's all i remember. the prosecutor says, did he say anything about the timing of the news reporting regarding picks? oh, he yes, he wanted to know how it was playing and just my thoughts and opinion about this story versus having the story a different kind of story before the campaign had michael not made that payment? and i think ms mr. trump's opinion was that it was better to be dealing

with it now, and that would have been bad to have had that story come out before the election. so this was the last thing that hope hicks testified when questioned by the prosecutor was what she said before the right. before the crying. >> right. this was the final thing that the prosecutors left the jury hearing her say which was she's saying she doesn't believe the story that michael cohen had advanced this money on his own, but also saying that trump was glad that he had to deal with this in 2018 because it would have been much worse to deal with it before the election. >> kaitlan asked the former president about the access hollywood tape from the scene and town hall last year, i want to play a clip of that there was a tape deposition of view from october in it. you defended the comments that you made on that access hollywood tape about being able to grab women, how you want. >> do you stand by those comments? >> i said if you're famous and rich or whatever, i said, but i said of your star you are and i said, women led you. i didn't say you grew up. i said women

let you didn't use that word. but if you look, women led, you your hours in a deposition that our result should be a storable that are powerful they tend to do pretty well in a lot of different ways, okay and you would like me to take that back? >> i can't take it back because it happens to be true one, he said, grab them in the audio. >> anyone who listened to it as not really private burden. it's not up for dispute to what i'm so struck by listening back to that now is the video they played in court today for the jury to hear was trump, his video that he put out on twitter after that video came out. i mean, there was the crisis moment as hope hicks testified today, a hurricane was expected to make landfall that night. no one in the news, she said, we don't even know where it made landfall or anything because people were only talking a hurricane, right? in a political sense, obviously. but donald trump it out that video apologizing and then in your debate question, he said he was embarrassed. that is language. he does not use anymore no matter what he

does or what happens, he never says apologize. he'd never says he's embarrassed. and so it also speaks to how he is changed since 2016 and how he views himself through this political lins as someone who really in his view is untouchable. but in a deposition that wasn't taken not that long ago. he defended the common city made in the video. >> we'll just to underscore that moment when this came out, i were at the time was working for the freedom caucus. jim jordan was about to go to an event in ohio with mike pence and there was genuine and discussion that he may not go to the event that pence might not show up for the event there was basically a pause on all fronts, even within the rnc debate is this campaign even going to move forward? so it is important to remember that context because another bombshell like this, having come out at the time would have been incredibly significant. well hope hicks who was asked about that on the stand today and she talked about paul ryan had an event in wisconsin that trump was supposed to go to and then she said it was sort of the prosecution said that he he turned trump down. >> she said, actually it's more nuanced and she went on to

explain that paul ryan reorganized it so that to de-emphasize trump and maybe paul ryan wouldn't be there and then she says, trump decided not to go because he was insulted, i guess. >> and i believe reince priebus gotten to try to facilitate that so it wouldn't look like a clean break at the time, but that's that's accurate. >> i mean, this was a moment where steve bannon loves to tell the story, but they all sat around a conference table that people that she was describing who were there as they were in the middle of the debate prep when de ferran hold from the post emailed them to say, hey, we've got this really embarrassing audio tape of trump and they kinda went around the room and trump asked if they thought he should drop out and a lot of them, including reince priebus, said that they believed he should steve bannon, i believe as he characterizes, it was one of the only people who did not believe, but it was such a moment in the campaign where people did genuinely think trump may drop out of the race. >> well, i was also central moment, i will say in the debate prep with they were doing debate prep at that same moment. we were doing debate prep as one of the moderators of that debate. and it suddenly as soon as it hit all our plans

for what the first question was going to be. >> and like energy policy, right? >> it all it all went up. the window and then there was this whole day long drama behind the scenes of how do we ask it? we know exactly what's the wording going to be and what's the follow-up going to be and sort of planning that all out. >> i mean, i think what caitlin was saying about trump changing the way he talks about the access hollywood tape. that was such a seminal moment for him politically because he one and how do you not won. i think you know, obviously everything would have changed, but the lesson that trump learn from that, similarly from charlottesville when he made the statements about the charlottesville and then he tried to walk it back and ever since then, he's been denying that he ever said there were very fine people on both sides. trump has learned the lesson, never to walk a thing back. never ever to walk a thing back. and that has become his i just want to point out the

first 30 minutes of that debate were i mean, i was on the stage and martha raddatz and nobody knew how this was going to play out. >> nobody knew donald trump had held this press conference with bill clinton accusers. he had brought them to the debate hall they both walked out there. they didn't shake hands, they didn't shake hands with the moderators the tension, the molecules of the air on that said were charged in that room and i mean, i've done other debates before, never committee of the presidential debate, but primary debates. i've never experienced a 20 minutes outside of a combat zone that was so charged and just almost anything could have had. and he started following her around on stage. i mean, the whole thing was it was just stunning to be a part of yeah. >> i mean, i remember i mean, i was covering hillary clinton at the time. the fact that he brought bill clinton's accusers to that debate created this incredible circus

atmosphere, but it also made people believed. that he, was just going to kind of bulldozer through this moment. i think it was kind of a mixed bag on the debate stage, but it was really was because ultimately the end result of all of this probably because there was not another woman or accuser who came forward the end result of all of this was that the access hollywood tape didn't sink him. and so he is totally emboldened by that experience. and every other experience that he's had subsequently that has left him empowered after these moments that would've killed anybody else's political career, it's a revisionist history where he's see how he talked about that then and then look at how he was talking about one year ago. he's saying that's actually not what i said. well, you can hear him. >> the audio tape they played yesterday that michael cohen surreptitiously taped of him and donald trump discussing it. >> trump posted today they cut off part of it that was actually very positive for him there's no evidence of that. his attorneys did not argue

that in court. la as you know, and it was just a moment where he tries to seek to reframe things even when there is, their document evidence that there is an audio tape, he tries to basically reframe things and the question is how that plays. >> they argued this in front of the judge today about the evidence of the chain of custody of that tape and also that the prosecution is saying that a call came in, which is what sort of cut off that call in the defense is trying to raise questions about well, what's the evidence that a call came in and how do you determine that every defendant in history whose then caught on tape always maintains that as soon as that tape ended, something great for them it's worth noting that was true much more head different harmful kaitlan just mentioned on the access hollywood story that he himself broke. he's joining us next to the question of whether the former president has, again violated his gag order will show you what he posts on social media the last nine you get a former federal judges take on that as well. and later, given all the trump world turmoil that hope hicks were counted today and that we just talked about some

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tomorrow at nine on cnn we were talking earlier about judge merchan and his demeanor in core, which is maintained despite significant challenges, you can say it's rounding this trial, including defendant with his own social network. he's already held them in criminal contempt for violating his gag order and is still weighing a second batch of alleged violations. and now there's more last night, defendant trump posted this clip from steve bannon's podcast during which andrew giuliani attack the judge's daughter the gag order that he is violating that according to the judge, that donald trump is violating, is just pointing out the fact that the judge's daughter has profited to the tune of nine the million dollars. >> that's right. over $90 from adam shift, kamala harris, and other leftist joining the panel is former federal judge shira scheindlin do you think judge merchan would or should react to from posting that video? >> well, it is another attack

on the judge's daughter and the judge has said, clearly that's off limits. so i think as usual, trump is going right up to the line and maybe just over that line, some days you sort of think he's baiting the judge and daring him to put them in jail sometimes you wonder if he wants that to help him with his victim hood argument. i really wonder about that it almost seems like he wants to show that the gag order does have an impact on him at all. >> i mean, trump just keeps it's like he's like a toddler. it's like you he keeps pushing back on the restraint. >> you don't want to call a little fao on donald trump. >> he was he was in front of judge lewis kaplan. >> you can take the fifth, your honor so harsh so harsh on him and his attorney. so harsh. >> he was in front of judge engoron, who was so harsh on him and his attorneys roshan is not even in the league of those

other two guy. >> he knows that this judge is letting his lawyers try their case, letting me do aggressive cross-examinations, letting them do their things. so he knows what he's saying because he now is a basis of comparison between two others. judges who kick his butt and kicked his lawyer was also interesting to hear. >> judge merchan this morning before the jury came in talking to donald trump and through todd blanche saying, i think your client has a misunderstanding. he absolutely has every right to testify, addressing the comments that trump had made about are not allowed to testify because of this ag order, which is just patently false and just ridiculous. i mean, nobody listening to judge merchan commonly and politely sort of informing donald trump, reminding of hit of his rights. i mean, just no one sitting there listening to that would would really believe that this guy is this rabid animal going after him, know and i think i think they were both acting to some extent, trump knew darn well, that he was permitted to testify. that was an act. and

the judge carefully explaining it to him, knew that he already knew it. so both of them were making good record, so to speak, for their positions but it was all known the problem with that is also no one in that room thinks that, but that's a very limited amount of people, most of them reporters, 12 of them witnesses. there's a whole atmosphere out there that does believe this judge is biased against donald trump because he tells him that and conservative media and his allies tell them that and they point to, i think like 30 bucks that the judge donated to democrats at some point. and so that is something that they feel like they've been effective. and using that and pushing, putting that out there and as always with donald trump, he doesn't care what's actually real. it's the perception of it. >> well and what i think is that those people will never change their mind anyway, doesn't matter what the truth is. they've made eight up their mind. so if i can show scheindlin picking up on caitlin point, judge merchan did donate a few $35 to anti-trump. >> if you had a defendant in front of you, chris jones, and

you would donated $35 to defeat chris jones for office a few years ago, would you recuse yourself? >> the real answer to is i would never have donated five. >> that's a good point. you're not supposed to not supposed broken that rule and donated $35 to defeat chris jones. and now chris jones is liberties at stake in front of you. would you have recused i have said on record that i thought there was enough there that might have warranted or recusal and that was one of the facts that plus other reasons, i thought he should do. his team loved that trump's team love that you said that and you saw that on my show. >> and that was something they circulated and pushed out there because they believed it was i mean, they rarely see a retired judge helping make their case and they seized on that really, i know. >> but i wasn't helping anybody all i call it as i can, i just follow up on that. >> there's an important distinction between the judge having a conflict and a judge being a good or lousy judge. i mean, i think judge merchan is doing an extraordinary job of managing this case, of running it, of giving a fair trial. i also think he should have recused i agree with judge

scheindlin on that, but those are two separate issues. one is not an answer to the other i agree. i agree with you and i agree that he should have recused himself, but anderson, he did do the right thing he went to the committee on the judiciary, the state of new york, and he said, i made this donation. and my daughter works here. can i i was assigned this case. can i still handle the case? and that committee gave him the green light? >> i mean, based on what you know about hope hicks is testimony and the motion she showed me how impactful do you think she is i think a show of emotion by a witness is very impactful on a jury. >> but what the jury decides is, was it an act or was it genuine? and that's a big question. >> so what does the emotion mean? because it's not necessary? i mean, it's open to interpretation, isn't true, but i think the first question is, is it real? is a genuine because some witnesses put on a show and they're just sort of acting at the end of the testimony. they kinda break down and hundred over. but if the if the jury thinks it's

real, i think they have a lot of sympathy for that and they tried to figure out what it means. and i thought would have meant here is that she had once like this guy, she'd once been close to trump and it was hard for her to realize that she was being a witness against him. i think are really hurt her. and so that makes her very genuine witness and in the jurors are good to think about that all weekend yeah, that's right. >> i mean, that's my sense courtrooms are strange places, emotionally. >> they evoke odd emotions you talked earlier anderson about your experience as a witness only changes the way you see the trial. >> actually be able to in this to remember again, which is why which they were cameras. >> yeah, it's almost hard to explain them in the first time i gave a closing, i don't think it was in front of you, your honor, is a different judge, but i give a closing in a major case. i almost felt myself crying in front of the jury. i don't know why to this de it easier guys are you guys? these guys these guys, these guys cry on command. >> they can just bring it up like method actors, didn't have

anything to do with the facts of the case. it was just it's dramatic crescendo of something you've been working on an invested in from what's nothing to do with the case. i held it back by the way i appreciate but it does evoke unexpected emotions were both grizzled veterans. it doesn't impact us most of my juries, i would talk to the juries, jurors after the end of the trial. >> and i say, what was really important? to what struck you and sometimes they would say witness so and so really got to me because of what she said and how she said it was always fascinating to talk to the jurors after the trial. >> i always talk to dry because i learned i learned so much what went well and what didn't work well no, i didn't believe that, but i'm thinking what i was on best wouldn't know it wasn't it was actually that one in your experience? >> i mean, for role of the lawyers here and judge, it. do do jurors pay attention? i mean, is it is it sure. i mean, 90% the facts of the case that they learn or is it their judgment about the honesty and character of the person? i'm testifying, i think to a great

degree, it's their judgment as to the credibility of witnesses. i think it does boil down to that because many cases, some witnesses say one thing, some say exactly the opposite. who do you believe and it boils down, i think to a great degree to credibility. >> and so it boils down to a gut feeling. yes based on what happens in that courtroom, it's a very human process and we think of the jury as this model with the jury, but it's 12 human beings when we learned about them, a couple of weeks ago, there a woman who is at it, professional man who to lawyers, but it's just the human i'm also constantly but surprised by who juries believe in who they don't. >> i've seen juries take the word of people way worse than michael cohen and returned convictions. and i've seen the opposite too. i've seen juries reject testimony from people who i thought were great way. >> we're going to sit here for two hours like analyzing everything that whole pig stated in how she handed the microphone and our hair and i don't know if jurors are doing that. i think tomorrow they're going to communions. they're going to do some gardening. they're going to foster a dog and, you know, kind of go on with their life and monday,

they'll get back into the groove sometimes they just like some witnesses and take a disliked other witness and it's visceral and we don't entire know work though when it's kind of a mixed witness like hope hicks who made did well for the prosecution, but also for the defense. >> where do you think that falls with the jury? >> i think that makes her for peer very credible because she didn't try to get him. she was trying to be fair and balanced, so that made her a credible witness. and each side can argue that because she's credible, you should believe this part scheindlin. thank you. it's great to have you the rest day with this on the stand today, hope hicks revealed how trump world first learned about the access hollywood tape. who broke it to her and the rest of the world we're about to be joined by the reporter who broke that story to her directly in an email, a bureaucrat so this is the playoffs, great key-based trust each other. we're going to do a trust balls, stand up, trust what? you sent me up, doc

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absorbine pro. feel okay alone. >> i learned thoughts on capitol hill and this october 7, 2016, the deadly hurricane matthew is battering america and then a different kind of storm hit so big it would knock the hurricane out of the news cycle, as was mentioned in court today. hey, by hope hicks, that recollection from former trump campaign secretary hicks on the stand, referring to the infamous access hollywood tape walk in the jury through how you first learned about it and the crisis that it would spark inside trump world. this portion is the reason why i listen get automatically attracted to beautiful. i just kissing them. it's like a magnet i don't even when your star they let you do it. >> you can do anything, whatever you grabbing butts do anything like delegates these

no, i don't want to go ahead. >> male from. then washington post reporter guy named david fahrenthold seeking comment. it was shown in court today. the subject line of from him, the email was urgent washington post barry. the email contained a transcript of what was said on that access hollywood tape as what her first reaction was. hicks replied, quote, i was very concerned. i was concerned, very concerned with his. now is the reporter who broke that bombshell to tell her and the rest of the world, david fahrenthold is now an investigative reporter with the new york times. david has good to see you again. i'm wondering what you made of hope hicks is testimony, particularly how your scoop on the access hollywood tape was dealt with behind the scenes, the campaign because i'm assuming this is probably the first time you've heard what it was like inside trump world at that time? >> yeah, it's a rare opportunity as a reporter to get this sort of see the other side of a day like this. so yeah, we sent them this

transcript. these questions were around one 30 in the afternoon and all i knew at that point was the responses i got back from them, which was first this doesn't sound like mr. trump sentence the video to be sure. and then after we send them the video so they then confirmed it was him today. it was real so interesting and sort of surreal to see all the steps that happened in between. >> we learned in court according to hope hicks, she went to trump, showed him the email from you and he said, well, that are told him about it and he said, well, that doesn't sound like me. is that where she got the response to send to you saying it doesn't sound like mr. trump must have been at the time when she said that. that doesn't sound like him i was like, i mean, after all we remember where this was the end of the 2016 campaign injury. >> it sounded exactly like him even in the written word yeah. right. so i thought really she was saying that i can her own voice like, oh, this doesn't sound like the man i know now we know it was just trump's

saying it doesn't sound like me and she just passed that on verbatim she was talking about the length of time that they had to respond. >> you send you reach out your one 30 i think she testified today that the story was published three 30, correct me if i'm wrong, what what how much time was there and at what point did you send her the tape we sent her as you saw, about one 30 we center that transcript. >> she comes comes back to i don't remember when, but at some point later and says it doesn't sound like him send us the tape. there was some debate internally on our end about whether we would send them tape and we decided we would always end of the tape it like three 50 and said, look, we are convinced this is him. we don't need you to confirm this is him on the tape. we're going to publish our story at 4:00 p.m. you can comment or you could not comment, but the story is going up then, and they called back right at four and said, okay, wait, it's him right here's his excuse for white ball on the table he gets out of the bus. so i mean, it's there's there's little question. it's actually him it's yeah. >> what else do it out to about

her testimony today? >> well, i laughed at the her initial sort of email to the blast email to the people in the trump campaign asking, what should i do about this? she's like, well, here are some options and one of our options was denied and i deny which i love that because that was obviously the way the trump campaign worked. and 2016 was just no matter what was happening happening. and i've been dealing with them for months. no matter what proof you had, they didn't care if it was right. i didn't want to figure out if you were right. i just wanted to deny it. it was funny for me to see that inaction, that first reaction was, let's not even find out if it's true. maybe we should just say it isn't just the night without learning more the in now trump world is sort of trying to downplay the impact of this tape, of this moment for everybody who lived through it, they remember it. >> how do you remember the impact this story had once you published it? >> and there have been part of anything like it. so we published it about four in the afternoon on friday, the

washington post had sort of a little internal systems have met. it was like a look like a speedometer to show how much traffic, how many people would read your story. and it was like a bugs bunny moment. it literally spun around like the it had been read all over the world. i've never been part of the story that had that kind of impact. now, obviously, i didn't write the story thinking, whoa, we're going to sink trump's campaign. and when it was out, i didn't think okay, i have sunk trump's campaign. there was another month left to go, but it may obviously had a profound effect to the point that even paul ryan, very prominent republicans were walking away from trump refusing to be seen with trump by the end of that de yeah. >> listen, i mean, you joined the trump white house later. was there a ghost or a shadow from that access hollywood tape still sort of around the west wing? >> yeah, very much so. so i joined in the end of 2017, is the vice president's press secretary in shortly after as when the karen mcdougal story became public early 2018. so it was sort of there was just it felt like something you can't get away from the problems that you had with women accusers coming forward, e jean carroll was even part of the discussion

at that time. so it was always sort of underlying. but the thing i want to underscores, we're talking about this in 2024 republicans kinda made peace with us in 2016. i can't explain why. i can't defend it, but most of them said, you know, it's obviously him on that tape. you can see it with your own eyes, hear with their own ears and so i kind of wonder what this case there's the jury and then there's the public opinion. i don't think many republicans are going to care about these additional facts that we're learning. it's stunning to say, realizing that in 2016, that's nearly sung kim and people were ready to walk away. >> that's not where i'm republican evangelicals yeah, republicans. there are more firmly with him now, even as more facts have come out, even as he is now been found liable in a civil suit around sexual assault. >> and you know what the thinking and trump world does is basically because there are people jason miller is one of the campaign aides who is in that room in the courtroom with donald trump and has been there a lot. he was one of the ones that hope hicks emailed that de and copied him on just to speak to the people who have been around him for a long time. and there is this thinking in trump

world that if they could survive access hollywood, they could survive anything. and nothing phases them even when there's a big story that's damaging as much as it did that day. and i just think it speaks to how they handle things and the denied deny statement that hope hicks out. that was have reflux action. >> they still do that. i will report something completely factual that maybe has even that damaging to them. it's just a fact and they'll say, do not i'll fake news denial, fake news. and then we prove that it's correct, but that's just their instinct always is true, denied factual. >> that is a great point. sorry, just quickly because i remember being on air force one with hope hicks and mid-2020 in a story that i thought was shocking is about trump's taxes. play 30 questions from the new york times. i went and said, we've got to get this to the press as meant this is a huge story and she's like, this is nothing you don't, you've not seen anything you weren't there in 2016, we survived access hollywood. that is the mindset that was their barometer. and if you survive to everything else would be fine. yeah. and it's changed all of republican politics

since then. i mean, every sort of trumpian candidate has to have that same mindset that every piece of adversity they come across, they have to just barrel right through it. i do think though there is a little bit of revisionist history in trump world a lot of trump, a little being generous here, but especially after those that last six weeks of that campaign, it wasn't just access hollywood i mean, a lot of things happen. there was the anthony weiner stuff, there was the laptop with hillary clinton. there were other factors that were at play there, and not to mention that, but the election was extremely close. it wasn't like trump won in a landslide, so there is this tendency in trump world to over-interpret their ability to survive access? hollywood, not taking into consideration all of the other elements that went into what happened in 2016. but trump still lives with that sort of god complex where he's like, i'm the guy who did what no one else could ever do

before. and i did it just short shear force a vote because the american people didn't care. >> i thank yes, some americans did not care, but i also think there were a lot of other factors that went into it as david, i mean, you're reporting it's easy to forget this because things so much has happened over the last couple of years, but there was also all those fables about donald trump's charity and his supportive veterans and giving millions and millions of dollars to veterans your reporting showed that just was not the case. >> it's right one of the really interesting things about 20:16 was learning it. it's so much of what trump had said about his charitable giving. this sort of bruce wayne persona. he had was included a lot of brags about his charitable giving was wrong i mean, even in the course of the campaign, he has campaigned, said he'd given out $1 million out of his own pockets to veterans to veterans charities, and it turned out to be completely ally. he hadn't given $1 and we would use things like you'd use his charities money to buy giant portraits of himself i like

that through stories because you've learned so much about trump by viewing out in private, just the same with the access hollywood showed how he talked in private, the non-profit story short how he acted in private but in our charitable he was or wasn't when no one was looking yeah. the defense was able to keep the jury from seeing the access hollywood tape. does that really matter? and given how much they'd heard about it, i'm sure remembers, judge merchan gets the credit for the jury not hearing that. given the defense asked, but he granted that it does as a defense attorney, you want to crawl under the table. what you hear your client's voice saying something nasty and there's nothing you can do. you can cross examine it. you can't. so yes, i think it does matter even though they've heard the words, it's different when they hear them coming out of your clients i think this aspect of the prosecution's case has come in clear and straw hong and straightforward, which is when that tape hit, it was a bombshell in the campaign. >> they were panicked and they couldn't afford to have the stormy daniels allegations come

out and that's why they made the payment and that's an important but it's not the whole case, but it's an important part of the case that part strong dummy variable you're reporting always just extraordinary. so thank you so much appreciate it. thanks for being with us. have a good weekend. coming up. we're going to discuss the first time that hope hicks testified about her former boss for the former member of the january 6 committee tc my. dr. sanjay gupta, listen wherever you get your podcasts finish ultimate engineered for the toughest condition dry burn tons, stains oh, dishwashers, very hard finnish ultimate with cellulosic technology helps deliver the ultimate clean high. it's christina again. i'm here to tell you about an all new special offer from my friends at jacuzzi bathroom model that you don't want to miss? you already know jacuzzi has been making water-filled great for more than 65 years. and now they're bringing you this special tv offer. were

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told repeatedly by his campaign advisers, government officials, and others that there was no evidence to support his claims of election fraud. take a look i was becoming increasingly concerned that we, were damaging we were damaging his legacy. what did the president say in response to what you just described? >> he said something along the lines of you know, nobody will care about my legacy if i lose so that won't matter. the only thing that matters is is winning we're joined now by a member of the january 6 committee, former republican congressman adam kinzinger. >> reason the author of renegade defending democracy and liberty and are divided country. carson i would how would you describe hope hicks is credibility and her willingness to be candid to the

january 6 committee because it's interesting to compare her testimony to your committee versus your testimony today. >> yeah look i mean, my impression of her was going as far as i know honest. not necessarily eager to come in front of committee? not probably not eager to go in front of this courtroom but those are duty and does so honestly, and that was the impression i got was she wasn't really hiding the thing. you had to ask the questions. obviously, she's not going to volunteer it but that she had real concern for donald trump, as you mentioned, that clip, she was concerned about his legacy at one point after january 6, there were text messages. i forget who she sent them to where she said we all look like domestic terrorists now. so she's a pretty same person in a pretty insane world. and unfortunately she's been caught up in a lot of this. i mean, donald trump, she was in the room basically anywhere he was. and unfortunately, she's having

testified not before, just our committee now in front of this court, but i think she's had to come in and talk to the intel committee in the past two. so there's kinda gotten caught up in all of this. >> you were sitting republican member of congress during the fall of 2016 when the access hollywood tape was revealed obviously sent shockwaves through your party how surreal is it after all, the political legal drama in the past eight years, i hope hicks was on the witness stand and in this particular trial today, amid all the drama that's still pending i mean, look, it's all surreal. >> i still i mean, i still can't even believe donald trump was president to be honest with you and when that hit, i remember i had said even before that that i couldn't support donald trump for president because of what he had made about the fallen soldier well, juror and had gone after the fallen soldier at the i think it was at the convention, but yeah, i mean, sitting there when this tape came out, i mean, i had a number of colleagues that then officially in public said they can't support donald trump. and i can tell you there was a lot of discussion. there was a

lot of hope that trump would then back out of the campaign that somehow there would be the party be able to put somebody else in there probably mike pence. and i remember then specifically when he said i'm not getting out, i'm going to stay in this race. the discussion among other members of congress and a republicans are like, well, he's definitely going to lose now. but as you all had mentioned in the prior our segment, there was so much that happened even after that that it kinda washed under the bus and the komi and hillary clinton thing was the last thing people were thinking of. >> yeah, i want to bring in the panel here as well. this trial is moving quite fast. >> it really is. i'm going to i'm going to say you can make memorial day plans. i think we're going to have a verdict by memorial daily going to go out hello, i'm here. yeah. it's moving quickly. i mean, let's think about what's left. michael cohen's definitely going to take the stand and i think that's a week. i think that's four days. david pecker was two-and-a-half days, but i'll do that. >> cohen will be on the stand for four days. yeah including direct and cross-examination. >> but other than michael cohen. okay. stormy daniel's is a maybe karen mcdougal's or

maybe kellyanne conway is or maybe trading tending towards no less litter saying unlikely. how long are they going to be mean hope hicks was three hours today, maybe a little more. you'll probably have a few more of these document custodian type witnesses, the interns and the da's investigators, but this is moving neither sayyed is dragging their feet. the direct exams are as they should be direct and focus defense lawyers sometimes like to drag out these endless cross-examinations, but both todd, blanche, and emil bove air or former prosecutors, they just have gotten right to the point this is moving quickly and efficiently. >> i did something today that they've the trump team has never done, which is stipulate, which basically agreed that the sky is blue and the prosecutors and the defense both agree. and so that is the sense within the teams that i also spoke with, maybe two to three more weeks of this and what it's going to look like. i think a lot of it relies on if they do have to continue bringing witnesses who are verifying that recordings are real and text are real, truth, social post are real. >> so whenever it's worth, i was in court wednesday, i'm pretty high-profile case and

the judge journe it to friday, may 31st, i believe. and we were walking out and i started the clerk at everyone's scurrying up to the bench and say, and then they call us back in and they said well, we think there's gonna be another big case still going on here. now this is just court offices in clerks guessing they're not lawyers guessing, but we they had they made his move the date from friday until wednesday when it's a trump day off, which is right after memorial day. so my friend here may not be totally off you have to plan for that. well, obviously do not have trump on that witness list that you mentioned. i assume he's not taking the stand. >> i mean, now he's already bailing out brahe's and he's doing it exactly the way we predicted on this show. he's going to say as he's already started to do look, they bear the burden of proof. my lawyers have demolished their witnesses so thoroughly that there's no need for me to take the stand and tactically i mean, that to me is the exact right color. i'm sure you would be begging him not to take the staggering. i would handcuff him this is in many ways, i think for the general public, one of the

least important trump cases, and i think seeing this and even learning some new information from hope hicks under oath, underscores why january 6, a case was so much public scrutiny and things that people actually want to see resolution. >> it's so important that it be tried before the election. there's so much new information that could come out having folks who has been wrapped edison to testify have to under oath and i don't think that's like a congressman me. do you think the outcome of this trial is going to matter politically when we're not i think it will have an impact. i don't think it's going to necessarily be a decisive impact, but if he's guilty and he's guilty of a felony, it will always say convicted felon donald trump. and it's going to around the margins in an election frankly, where i mean, it could be decided by a few thousand votes in a few states, it's certainly not going to help him. and it may hurt him just a little bit. >> and it said the same thing when he was impeached. >> he was indicted. i mean, he is now the presumptive republican nominee. people weren't didn't believe he could get here i think there is a lot of skepticism. i don't think we know the political

impact because i don't think the trial has been good for them. they went into it thinking, you know, it's a no known we already had all of this out there and he's still won the election. but two obvious point. he also lost in 2020 and it's not guaranteed. they don't. the numbers when you've been looking at the poles, which are just a snapshot had been pretty close between trump and biden and they've become more, even as we've gotten closer to the summer. and so it we don't know. >> yeah. we don't and we may not know in general because between now and when this trial ends and where the election is approximately 50,000 lifetimes so many things can happen between now and then however anytime the voters are reminded of all of the things that donald trump comes with that is generally not a good thing for donald trump. he has really benefited from being able to have some space between his last presidency and now, and that's actually what been the hardest thing for the biden campaign to deal with or to thank everybody on the panel.

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