were how solomon in new york is cnn this is gps, the global public square. >> welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york today on the program protests on college campuses reach a breaking point. as police make arrests and shut down encampment's is this impinging on students free speech? or have protesters gone too far? i will be joined by an egyptian and an israeli scholar who teach together at dartmouth to discuss that and much more than swarms of armed drones powered by artificial intelligence may indelibly alter the balance of power former name hey, those supreme halide commander, james step

redis tells me about this potentially frightening future and since, its birth, the cia was a quintessential old boys club. >> but all that changed thanks to women like my guest joanna mendez the agents these former sheaf of disguise hear from her about breaking the glass ceiling while winning the spy game but first here's my take the world is a tense place these days with europe consumed by its biggest land war since 1945 and conflict continuing to convulse the middle east these tensions would pale into insignificance. however, if a third of rina were to erupt in, asia involving the united states and china those tensions have in fact calmed down in recent months as both washington and beijing have sought to stabilize their relationship but there are now cries in washington to change

all that in an essay and foreign affairs, map pottinger and mike gallagher argue that the united states should adopt a cold war style containment policy too. with china, whose goal should be victory that could encourage the chinese people to quote, explore new models of development and governance unquote. pardon joe acknowledged on the show last week that an effective us strategy might naturally lead to some form of regime collapse pottinger was donald trump's senior most aid on china policy and gallagher and outgoing congressman chairs the house select committee on china. >> their views will likely shape the next republican administration but adjourn gallagher argued that biden strategy, managing competition with china does not go nearly far enough. the authors accused the biden team of pursuing a 1970s style detente policy toward china when it should be pursuing a 1980s style reaganite policy designed to push beijing dream to the

brink. >> according to them, we should welcome more friction and tension with china this is an important essay because it lays out clearly the alternative strategy being proposed by some on the right by putting their cards on the table. pottinger and gallagher help us understand the reckless, dangerous, and utterly impractical nature of their own preferred policy china today bears little resemblance to the soviet union of the 1970s and 1980s. the soviet union was an unnatural empire cobbled together after world war ii with a decrepit economic model that had started to fail by the mid 19 china is the world's second largest economy and largest trading nation unlike the soviet union's totally state-owned economy, china has a mixture of private and public sector. 92% of china's exports come from a vibrant private sector including 42% from firms

with foreign current investors despite its recent troubles, it is still growing at around 5%. and because of its size is likely to stay the world's second most important economy for decades the soviet union was an isolated economy, whereas china is deeply integrated into the global system trade between america and the ussr peaked at several billion dollars in a year. china and the us do that much trade every few days the ussr's gdp was around 3.2 trillion added speak roughly 7.5% of world gdp. today, china's gdp is about 20% of global gdp most fundamental if the soviet union was largely a natural resource economy, a siberian saudi arabia deriving much of its growth from extractive industries like oil, gas, coal nickel, and aluminum china is a diversified manufacturing powerhouse with

an increasingly sophisticated information technology industry that is second only to the united states in fact, looking back, it's clear that in the 1970s, the ussr is economy had stalled, but gotta last lifeline when global oil prices quadrupled by the 1980s, oil prices collapsed. and then so did the soviet union were the united states to embark on a policy of containment? it would likely find itself alone china is the largest trading partner of over 120 countries around the world, far more than the us and most of these countries are eager to maintain good ties with beijing 82% of nigerians, for example, say chinese investment has been a boon to their economy. even european nations, america's closest allies, have made clear that they view china as much as a partner as they do arrival emmanuel macron noted last year that even in the worst-case

scenario of a conflict over time one your should be careful not to mimic america's hostility to beijing. and while he got criticized for those remarks as one german businessman noted to me, we all privately believe what macron said publicly. >> men can of scholz was in china last month hoping to deepen economic ties between the two countries. >> please american strategies of regime change have rarely worked think of cuba, venezuela, not korea, iraq, and afghanistan and. they are unlikely to work this time, especially in a country like china, where the regime is broadly credited with bringing major economic progress for its people after decades of poverty and misery, average incomes in china grew nine fold from. 1978 to 2015 the current bellicosity on the right reminds me of the growing demands for regime change against iraq two decades ago but this would be even worse because of china's size

and engagement with the world. a strategy of containment and overthrow would take the us down a hair-raising path. sustained confrontation would unravel the global economy risk isolating america and raise the odds of a world war over taiwan it is worth some sobeh reflection before embarking down this road for cnn.com slash fareed for a link to my washington post column this week and let's get started on wednesday and 90 people were arrested at a pro-palestinian protest at dartmouth college they are some of the more than 2000 protesters who had been arrested on college campuses. >> in the over the last few weeks is free speech being squelched or are the protesters out of line? joining me are to

dartmouth professors who co-teach a class called the politics of israel and palestine. bernard aviv chez is an israeli american scholar who is a visiting professor at dartmouth and is in jerusalem right now. as the dean fissure is a former egyptian diplomat who worked on the un middle east peace process in the early 2000s. he is now senior lecturer at dartmouth and is in hanover, new hampshire welcome both of you, bernard, let me start with you. i noticed in your biography in 1968 when you were a student, you occupy the building and mcgill university i'm wondering whether you now continue to believe that students should have the right to occupy buildings and do all that kind of disruption that you did all those years ago yes, it's true. >> i was part of a group of students who occupied the political science department at

mcgill and i have to say i learned a lot in that experience. but i've learned a lot since. and one of the things i learned is that universities are not these supercilious impregnable fortresses against which you batter with your ideas but actually a web of relationships and norms and fragile just like democracy is. and we all have a responsibility to maintain these norms the norms are for debate not for coercion and what is the dean? and i tried to do was model what that kind of debate would look like? i believe that if you are going to set up an encampment on the green at dartmouth, which is really not just some marginal

place, it's really the main thoroughfare of the campus where they're planning commencement and if you set up an encampment on the green, you're basically saying, i believe in a conception of justice that's so fundamental to me that i'm going to coerce you to accept it or you're not going to be able to have something that's valuable to you that's not debate. that's coercion. and if institutions that teach coercion prepare you maybe to be a commissar or a priest, but not to be a citizen of the united states. >> as a dean, let me ask you about that. it isn't we're not splint fed that. i mean, i would guess 90% of students are not part of these demonstrations. they feel like they need to get to their classes. they need to do what they're doing is this is this not? coercion rather than education well, it could be,

it's we have to remember students have a right to express themselves. >> they have a right to organize protests. if they wish. and they have to be able to do this freely without fear, without intimidation. and also, it is pretty radical and shocking for students to suddenly be confronted with. state troopers and police on campus having said this university is also have a right to protect free speech, to make sure that it happens peacefully, that it doesn't include incitement, that it doesn't intimidate other groups on campus and that whatever disruption it causes and every protest has to cause some kind of disruption that this disruption doesn't derail the main role of the university, which is education and learning now, there are cases where things are very

clear as if you occupy a building and prevent people from accessing it for days on but there are other situations where it's a fine line between are you annoying some students or are you intimidating them? are you making them feel? unsafe? now, those decisions have to be made by college leadership and those are difficult decisions by definition, it is not that there is a laser line separating those things but ultimately, the responsibility of the leadership is to make sure the university is open. and that there is access for everybody to do what they are mainly there to do, which is learning bernard let me ask you is this highlighting a fissure peter binary wrote an essay in which he said what all this is highlighting the philosophical issue there is now a crisis tension between liberalism and zionism that has opened up,

that. i think he was implying that zionism being about a kind of ethno nationalist state is at odds fundamentally which with liberalism, which says universal rights fall yes, well i think the word zionism here has become pretty mushy you know, when i hear peter talking about zionism, sometimes it's like lindsey graham talking about socialism. i mean, i, i admire peter. i've known him for years and think i'm a very fine person. but i think the word zionism here is getting a bum rap. and anyway, it's not really relevant israel is a country. it's a home, it's not a cause in the minds of american jews, it's a place, it's a hebrew speaking country with a politics. and there are liberals in this country who need need the support of

liberals around the world. and there are people who are illiberal in this country who i've been fighting for 50 years and we he saw the robustness of this culture war for the last 18 months with hundreds of thousands of people taking the streets so the idea that somehow israel ieee some vague conception of zionism is at odds with liberalism just seems to me a tremendous distraction. >> the reality of israel is that there are liberals here who need the support of people like peter b9, art, and others we're going to have to take a break when i come back, we will continue this conversation and get to the actual situation in the middle east when we'd return you think, you know the story, but there's more the surface. how it really happened with jesse l. martin tonight at

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closed captioning brought to you by guilt visit guilt.com today for up to 70% off designer brands, it has the designers that get your heart racing had inside a prices, new every day, hurry. that's gone in a flash, designer sales at up to 70% or so of guilt.com today and we are back with bernard, are be shy and as it in fischer, who teach a course together at dartmouth, as indeed, let me ask you your former egyptian diplomat what is the price is well as paying in conducting this extraordinary operation in gaza. >> because while you hear a lot of noise about the arab street, arab governments, for example, ccs government in egypt hate hamas. in fact, the view hamas has a kin to the muslim brotherhood and scc has jailed thousands and thousands of members of the muslim brotherhood so is there, is

there a real price is spain, or is it as i suspect, a lot of people in the israeli war cabinet think they'll make a lot of noise, but the arabs actually are happy. we're taking care of hamas yes and they're happy that israel if israel can weaken hamas, they will be happy but the problem is they understand that, that goal is unattainable and then the question practically becomes whether they like hamas or herod, the question becomes, how do we deal with an organization that is there that has capability and that affects the palestinian decisions that governs their approach to hamas. >> they understand that this military operation will cause more damage to the palestinian civilians. then it's going to cause it's to hamas. and therefore, they would like to bring it to an end and find a path towards a palestinian state. now, a credible path to our palestinian state if they're ticket to resolving

this conflict and to both and to deal with the question of hamas but obviously to do this, they also have to pay a price which is to be able to give israel security guarantees. and so far they have been reluctant to do this if you manage to get those two things together, a credible path to our palestinian state. and then aerobe row, in which day, according to which they take responsibility for palestinian security with israel. then we have a path towards resolving this conflict. if we can't have one of the two, then i'm afraid we will go back to the status quo ante before october 7 with the same dynamics that were there, which means we will be looking for another round of conflict at sometime in the future. >> bernard, you and as it publisher a coauthored and op-ed where you argue, maybe out of this can come a broader regional peace all of that seems premised on the idea that israel will be willing to allow

a palestinian state to come into being. >> and it seems like from the polling i've seen that seems further away than it's ever been in the last three or four decades is are really not happy to do that and that gets to this issue of the crisis between zionism and liberalism, which is israel is a country, but it is a country that has been occupying these lands with 5 million palace justinian's 4506 years now is there hope that you can imagine a palestinian state well, the polling is a little misleading because it doesn't really offer but that is other than yes, no. if you ask israelis, do you want a palestinian state on your border? they think, oh, the tackle come from cow kili on next time. so no, we don't. >> but if the choice is a regional deal normalization with the saudis economic growth, the opportunity to

resolve the problem in the north the sense that america is with you as they were two weeks ago, the night that iran fired these missiles. >> so that alliance no longer fears, feels merely hypothetical. if that's the choice then forget the polling. there's, there's a new opportunity here. and i think blinken is trying very hard to emphasize this that it's not. do you want a palestinian state or not? it's do you want this package that offers this kind of opportunity? or do you want to go back to the status quo ante as is a dean said, and have to deal with all the blowback in the world for maintaining the occupation it's going to be a culture war here as it has been in the past and i'd like to think that

reason will prevail on that wonderfully helpful note, we're not ever shared as it in fisher. thank you so much. pleasure to talk to both of you thank you for having us thank you. next on gps, retired admiral james stdev redis about something that will change the battlefield forever. artificial intelligence powered warfare. >> when we come back the assignment with jati cornish, listen wherever you get your podcasts smile, you found it the feeling of findings, psoriasis can't filter out the real you. >> so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only so tick to a once-daily pill for moderate to severe prac psoriasis and the chance that clear are almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding yourself ready for your close-up are finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily subject to was proven better,

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gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. so, this is, the playoffs. great teammates trust each other, were to do a trust stand-up, trust what you're certainly up doc told you, a dummy we humans have a lot to worry about these days, climate change and other pandemic, even the threat of world war three. >> but the unregulated development of artificial

intelligence since might be us bowden, the thread as any, according to my next guest, retired admiral james step redis, he was nato supreme allied commander europe, and has now a vice chair of global affairs at the carlyle group, has fascinating new book 2054 novel, which he co-wrote with elliot ackerman, very talented writer, is sent durde on the existential threat ai poses for the future of the word. jim pleasure to have you on a fascinating how you're writing these series of books. >> and this one is really about the ai race in military affairs. >> so first i want to ask you explain to us the power of ai so euro, your naval commander, what would ai allow you to do as a naval commander? that you weren't able to do when you were actually commanding ships. >> let me give you three very practical things. number one, it doesn't sound sexy, but it's logistics and maintenance artificial intelligence has a

capability to predict when a particular set of maintenance functions are needed. make sure that the spare parts are in train all of that done in a way that is much more efficient, much more cable that's huge because it keeps the ship's and permanent readiness. >> absolutely. we always say in the military, the the amateurs are the ones talking about strategy to professionals are focused on logistics. that's what wins wars. but number two, artificial intelligence will allow a commander say i was the captain of a destroyer or which i was if i had an ai advising me plugged into my decision process that ai will have access to every naval battle ever fought. it would be capable of scanning the horizon of history and whispering into the commander. you really ought to think about this and then third and finally, and we're seeing the edges of this in

ukraine. drones, swarms, bringing them together in very lethal ways. currently can't quite do that artificial intelligence will make swarming drones to greatest threat by midst century, you talk a lot about the ai race and it's really us versus china. yes. >> who's ahead? >> us marginally ahead, are mutual friend eric schmidt, did a marvelous set of research on this a couple of years ago, and he would have said, then, we're about a year ahead of china. my sense from my sources, china is closing that gap. this is the foot race that will determine geopolitical superiority by mid-century. >> are we building the right kind of military for that kind of world? >> absolutely. and let me add another example and it terms of drones versus navalny look what's happening in the black sea. the russian black sea fleet a third of it is on the bottom of the black sea,

drinking seawater as we would say in the business. why not? because ukraine has a navy, they don't, it's because the ukrainians have used both air and surface drones so to your question, loans are amazing. >> the minister show them to me there. they look like toy boats and they are really highly lethal drones that can sync these hundred, hundreds of millions of dollars worth of worships, correct. and so the question then becomes, are the carriers still viable? i think they are for the moment for the tenure future, 15 years, future boy, you get much beyond that and the capacity of massive swarms of drones company by cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, all linked together by artificial intelligence. it'll make those crown jewels of the fleet. our aircraft carriers vulnerable so you've, you've held very, very high military office and you know that there are some people who worry that donald trump, were

to be elected again, would politicize the military. >> do you worry about that? >> i do. and i think that the greatest aspect of our national all security is an a political military. and we would edge in to politics into that force at great peril to the republic at the moment, all of my contacts in the active duty military reassure me that the military continues to regard itself as a political in a followers of the constitution let's hope it stays that way. >> and when you look at nato, you were the formula supreme allied commander grape great title, by the way. there are people in europe who worry a lot about trump and nader. >> and what i've heard people say is it's he doesn't have to pull out of nato. >> he just has to say, i'm not going to defend lot latvia, lithuania, estonia, right?

because it's a sort of in some ways the whole nato is basically it's a psychological game. it's the thread is psychological that the us will get involved. that's what bouton has to be calculating. >> and if the president says something like that the nadir of the building kim, continue the meetings can continue, but the heart of it is lost. we always say deterrence is the combination of capability and credibility. nato is incredibly capable. the defense budget or the united states and the european ends together is well over ten times that of russia the population is well over five times the size of russia so the capability is not the problem. you've put your finger on it. it's the credibility and yes, i would be very concerned about a trump presidency that did not actively support and indeed lead within nato. that's a real concern from the former

supreme allied commander mater. >> my pleasure for eid. >> thank you, sir. thank you next on gps, we delve into the world of espionage with the ci is chief of disguise. >> jonathan mann does. our ask her about herd in the spy trade when we come back the trump hush money trial gavel to gavel coverage, weight only. cnn can bring it to you. legal insight, expert analysis, and real-time updates live from the courtroom follow the facts, follow the testimony, follows cnn with car gurus. you can buy or sell your car in person or online. if only you could do things your way all the time. wouldn't that be nice got it. with gurus fashion moves fast so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level with a custom private 5g networks, we get more control

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2018 gina haskell became the first ever female director of the cia. >> when she quickly named women to run the top three directorates of the agency, it was a watershed moment for an organization that had long been a notorious old boys club women like my next guest help break that glass ceiling at headquarters in langley and it's stations around the world joanna mendez got her start at the ci because her then-fiance work, they're the only job she was offered within the typing pool. the agency's outdated rules and customs tried to keep her there but 20 some years later, after a series of extraordinary adventures in the spice trade overseas zhanna was named the agency's chief of disguise she tells her extraordinary story in a new book in true face. a woman's life and the cia unmasked journal. welcome you will want tasked with figuring out how to get a would-be soviet defector out of the embassy and you

decided that the answer was water bottles explained we have a wonderful photograph of it, which illustrates what you did. you know that the office that i was in while i was chief a decides we represented so many different skills, audio. if you needed a bug, if you needed a concealment, if you needed a micro dot, if you needed secret writing, whatever the idea of what do you do with the soviet who might be defecting and coming to your embassy that fell in a special category of work. we did with some magic builders out in hollywood. their job is to build deceptions and illusions. that's, that's how they get us hooked and sitting there afterwards saying, you can't do that we told them our problem and they came up with this universal, we call that a human transport device a way that you could take a person anywhere in the world and walk them by a security service or whatever

was there, load them into a truck and drive off? and what we came up with was a dolly the transporting device looked like it was loaded with cases of water with three crates of water, and i have to say looking at the photograph, it doesn't look like it's big enough to conceal the human being exactly that is the point that is yeah it would dismiss it. yeah. >> now, this is one great photograph in the book you're in the oval office. your briefing then president george hw bush explain what's happening, because you've got, you've got a head in your hand it. >> had taken us ten years, maybe a little more to create an animated mask. >> a mask that i can sit here with you right now, with one on. >> we could have this interview you and the lips would be moving, everything would be everything would be moving. >> it you would not know i was wearing a mask. >> so that's what i did with the president of the united

states. my office director, i never intended. >> you went in wearing the mask? >> i did in the middle of the presentation, you take it off i went through security at the white house. >> i went through the secret service and the white house. i went into the office, told him i had something new to show him, gave him some pictures of himself in disguise. the president, when he ran the cia, he really liked those pictures. i said, well, now i'm wearing something the best we've got. i'm going to take it off in short do you and i reached to do the tom cruise peel, which is misnamed by the way. and he said, hold on. and he got up and came and just walked around and was just he didn't know what he was looking for. sat down, he said, okay. i took it off and that's the picture now, you begin your book with the famous quote from ruth bader ginsburg. >> i asked no favor for my sex. all i ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off

our next was that what it felt like a cia i thought she said it's so well, just, you know, back off and let us go about our work it felt that way, not every man i had, i had some good bosses who accommodated my desire to do more to increase my responsibilities. but a couple of them really just obstacles in your way trying to shorten your career or move you out of their way. >> do you think i mean, now, there was a point at which half to gina has pokemon that the five top jobs at the cia, we're all held by women, has it? >> completely changed? >> i love your introduction i don't there's a piece of the cia. the piece that i was in the operational, the overseas feet on the ground, meeting with foreigners who are risking their lives and a lot of countries in russia, they are really risking their lives the

men thought no one going to pay any attention to us. and then in the sandbox, in the middle east, they said, you can't work there because you have no women have no value in that part of the world you think they're going to think that you can protect them while they're working for us. those were wrong. >> women can bring a different set of skills to working with these these assets, these foreign assets. i think we've proven again and again that we can do that job as well as the men can sometimes better. >> this is such an extraordinary career. i should thank you for it and for sharing it with us. >> thank you for for having this conversation next on gps, europe's power is shifting east away from britain, france, and germany i'll explain all that when we come back a florida man is hospitalized infected with anthrax night

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before political power and energy is shifting eastward towards new europe. >> as historian timothy guard nash told the new york times the voices of central and eastern europeans are being listened to more and taken more seriously in the councils of europe mader was growing and deploying resources eastward. >> the catalyst is of course, eastern europe's belligerent neighbor, russia look at poland. it has beefed up its own defenses, pledging far more than the nato target of 2% of gdp in fact, it's president proposes a new 3% target for all nato members this year, poland will spend around 4% of its gdp on the military. it also plans to nearly double its land forces to 300,000 soldiers it's spent billions of dollars on state of the art weapons as the economists noted, poland intends to feel more tanks that are operated by the armies of

germany, france, britain, and italy put together poland's leadership goes beyond defense spending. most arms that reach ukraine from the west come through poland. it has granted temporary protection status to nearly 1 million ukrainians since the invasion, more than any country in europe, except germany for eastern europe, the conflict with russia is existential. >> but as the ft nodes because of the shift in the continents attention, eastern europe has never been more safe last week, poland in lithuania conducted joint military drills around the seawall, key gap. >> that's a 60 miles strip of land between belarus. essentially russia as vassal state and kaliningrad, or russian territory off the mainland sandwiched between lithuania and poland the gap has historically been the greatest weakness of the baltic states, lithuania, latvia, and estonia if russia captured the walkie gap, it would cut off those three former soviet states from the rest of nato

but the danger posed by a russian occupation of the sawadi gap diminished when nato expanded to include to northern neighbors, sweden and finland now as ingredient shimon, each lithuania's prime minister told the ft, the baltic sea has become a nato lake the three baltic states have a maritime border with nato members. the sawadi gap is no longer a fatal weakness in fact, the baltic states, traditionally the most vulnerable in the alliance, appear newly energized by russia's invasion of ukraine estonia, latvia, and lithuania agreed in january to build hundreds of concrete bunkers on their borders with russia and belarus according to the ft, historically nader's plan for the baltic countries should russia have invaded them was to allow it to happen before fighting russia of some months later now the strategy is to defend these countries from the first meter deterring russia

from attacking in the first place. in 2017, neighbors and battalions of troops to the three countries. each battalion comprised of about 1,000 soldiers it is now increasing those numbers three to five fold and take a look at this map from political of nato defense spending last year, the country is nearer to russia, devote more of their gdp to defense old europe, france, germany, italy, and spain have chronically underfunded armies by comparison, perhaps no country is more emblematic of the way the russian invasion is shifting focus in europe than sweden. russia's invasion prompted the country to give up its 200 years of neutrality join nader in september in advance of the acceptance of the nadir of bid, it announced a 28% increase in military expenditure for 2024. adding the country is facing the most serious security situation since the end of the second world war all europe nurtured

trade and diplomatic ties to russia and saw them come to nothing when russia invaded ukraine new york could never afford that optimism now, the most vulnerable countries in nato all those closest to russia have begun to take a leadership role in the block. this could change the nature of european defense and foreign policy for decades thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week, i will see you next week we're here to get your sayyed of the store affairs, bribery, croston tuition. >> why do we keep ending up here you can't write this stuff. united states of scandal with jake tapper. now streaming on max skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take kunal turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why cuno? >> it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric

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