where law enforcement deemed you have contributed to your own victimization so you are not able to get access to compensation. those are some of the barriers that exist. people that do know about it, especially crime victims in communities of color. host: in your case, you were in the hospital -- there was a 48 hour policy in your case. you are in the hospital for how long? guest: for a week. i do not know about the victim compensation program until 10 years after i became a victim of a violent crime, when i joined my organization. i come from a family of victims. my father was shot in the chest in the 1980's. my second oldest brother was shot in the 1990's. i had two cousins that were also victims of gun violence. we all had plenty of interactions with the justice system, hospitals, but none that actually led to any help or services for us to deal with

those experiences of being victims. host: we want our viewers to join -- >> we will take you live to a discussion of the humanitarian situation in gaza, with united nations senior humanitarian coordinator for gaza, sigrid kaag. she's expected to discuss food shortages and the delivery of aid to that region. >> it is my great pleasure to welcome those of you in the room and those joining us online for this fireside chat on navigating humanitarian assistance in gaza. for those of you who are not familiar with the u.s. institute of peace, we are a national independent, nonpartisan institute created by congress. our mission is the prevention, litigation, and resolution of conflict around the world. as we think about conflict, i think our minds turn very quickly to gaza, to the conflict

in gaza which has presented an extraordinarily complex set of managerial challenges. since the war began on october 7 with the hamas attack and the ensuing conflict in gaza, we have seen humanitarian conditions deteriorate to really extraordinary crisis levels. there are now concerns about imminent famine in northern gaza. there are an estimated 129 hostages from several countries who remain unaccounted for also in gaza. and looming over all of this is a potential incursion into rafah, the southern part of gaza. i'm honored to welcome ms. sigrid kaag to help us unpack the complexity of the humanitarian challenges in gaza.

ms. kaag serves as the united nations senior humanitarian and reconstruction coordinator for gaza. this is a position she has held since january following the passage of un security council resolution 27-20 last december. in this role, she facilitates, coordinates, monitors, and verifies humanitarian relief into gaza. she brings a wealth of experience to this job. she has held several positions in the dutch government, most recently serving as deputy prime minister and minister of finance. she also has a wide range of senior positions at the u.n. she served, among other places, as u.s. special court nader for lebanon from -- special coordinator for lebanon. i want to make sure the audience knows you all have the ability to pose questions. you should have question cards with you that will be collected.

yes, robert in the back has question cards. just signal and we will make sure you get one. those who are joining us online, you can use the chat box to pose your questions. we want to make sure we have time for that at the very end. with that, sigrid, let me dive right in. the situation in gaza was already quite dire in december when the un security council resolution passed creating your position. since then, several u.n. agencies are warning about the prospect of imminent famine. can you describe for us the scope and the scale of humanitarian need in gaza? and more broadly, how would you frame this overarching problem set of the humanitarian challenges that are posed in the gaza conflict arena? ms. kaag: thank you. the first one is hard to summarize, but i would start to say the situation is

catastrophic. all civilians are deeply affected. the majority have lost their homes. certainly lost their livelihoods. we have thousands and thousands of children in modern wartime -- without a known living relative. gaza families have always been extended gaza families to have quite a number of children. no living relative is very telling about the extent of loss of life. we know the statistics that two thirds of the casualties in this conflict are women and children. no clean water, or very little. people are reduced to sharing a latrine. this has an effect that women and girls are not particularly safe to use whatever is one

would call facilities. communal use at best, if you are lucky to have it. waste is lying in the streets, piling up, piling up. i'm still surprised you don't see rats or not as many as one would expect. i'm told no, because rats also get eaten. everything tells you, every example tells you how dire it is. i don't think the word "dire" is applicable. in a place where you are confined, no place to flee, and internal movements within gaza have been compounded. so, extent and scale, i have said this a number of times. i have been going to gaza for different professional reason since 1998. you cannot recognize the place. i also know palestinians from

gaza who desperately tried to look up on the map to see if they can find some sort of markers to see where their house was because, let's say, the mosque is destroyed. you don't have the classic, you turn around the corner, there is that church or that school and i will find my house. everything has been destroyed or reduced to significant amount of rubble. we have to start how to keep growing, retain a measure of human dignity. it is catastrophic, very daunting, and significantly more needs to be done. mona: so on that point, and earlier this week, the biden administration did note that israel has taken "significant steps to improve the flow of aid to gaza." but also stressed that there is significant more work to be

done, i think, to the point you are making. are you seeing any improvements on the ground, and how would one measure improvement given what you have just laid down? how do we understand what the metrics are for any improved situation on the ground in gaza? ms. kaag: i believe you are referring to david satterfield as well. he gave a little bit of an exit interview perhaps. mona: now, former -- ms. kaag: a minimal job from day one. he has been out there bringing and pushing and asking and checking. i have said this yesterday too. since april 5, in the wake of the tragedy which led to the death of the wck humanitarian workers, israel has taken a number of steps. it has made a number of commitments so i think we need to recognize that. but, we need a lot more.

i have been very clear on that to the security council. we need a paradigm shift. that means we need to see a significant increase in volume. we need sustainable and consistent flows. we need to see measures being implemented or that will be implemented which i know israeli officials have confirmed they will do that can definitely alter the way in which we can actually receive and distribute the assistance. maybe in the months where supplies were only coming in more by a trickle effect, way below anything we would expect for effective humanitarian assistance, we have started counting trucks. but trucks is the wrong metric. it is a means to an end. you need to move around, but it tells you very little on the quantity of the supplies, the relevance, the types of goods you need to not only sustain the population, but deal with malnourished children, to give the dignity to women and girls,

to have the right type of medication for trauma care, but also chronic health care. it is a broad scope of need. and for that, we need to see a change not only on the supply side, but in our ability to deliver. and then it gets very granular and practical. it gets to road repairs. it is sometimes said, well, the u.n. will pick it up. it is quite difficult because the trucks cannot go. the israeli government made the decision to expand the fuel supply. there's not enough fuel for trucks and cars to go. the clearance of drivers of convoys. behavior at checkpoints inside gaza. there's a lot of improvement that still needs to be made and clear agreements to be firmly established or reaffirmed. that is what we also qualify as a paradigm shift. all that underpins the

collective ability of the u.n. let's not forget the international ngos and the palestinian ngos. it underpins our collective ability to expand our footprint, and above all, reach people on a constant and consistent basis. now, the wck case, the tragic incident has also shown that deconfliction is a much touted word. it needs to be clearly understood and adhered to. it is meaningful a to z. the convoy has the agreement to go, what happens on the way, if there is a risk of an incident. there will be direct contact to the military authorities, i would say, with the idf, that we can prevent. and there's always a constant negotiation or dialogue. i expect additional measures to be made or announced and to be

firmed up. at the end of the day, the only metric then is the well-being of people is improving. if we can treat malnourished children. if we are bringing people back from the brink. if there is sufficient shelter. if access to clean water is improved. i'm working on a measurement system basically with the u.k., but i also had this morning a meeting at the nsc. the u.s. has committed to assist us to make sure we all have the right metrics. otherwise, we go from the anecdotal into the measurable. as we know, data and our ability to measure is extremely important because it also makes it less political and makes it even more practical. we don't have to argue. if we are firm in the data, the ask is also very clear and the accountability is also important in this. mona: it is very helpful.

i would like to draw you out further on different aspects of this paradigm shift you are talking about. but, i want to start by having you articulate in more detail the particular vulnerability that women and children face. you have worked in other conflict zones. we see this across the globe in various conflict zones. we have seen it in the gaza conflict. you noted the number of children, not just orphans, but with no living relative which is devastating. the number of widows and women head of households which conveys its own set of challenges. can you articulate more on the nature of, or the disproportionate challenge that women and children in particular face in a conflict zones such as the one in gaza? ms. kaag: i have to say the

conflict zone of gaza is, given the parameters and perimeters of the conflict, there is other situation like this. gaza was a conservative society, but all women and girls went to school and completed their education. i think vulnerability has many faces. it is the acute, it is the now. it is the more marginal position that may have within their family household or community. the fact that a lot of the men are either out there looking for food or barter or queueing up. the girls are often sent to go look for water or other food commodities. we have seen it in the pictures often with these baskets or anything to try to gather some foodstuffs or water. i hear from my colleagues on the ground in gaza that they are deeply concerned about the rise of gender-based violence.

sadly not surprised, but it is a given. when people are ultimately deeply poor and dependent solely on very low levels of assistance certainly until now, the risk of exploitation in any other form are very real. a number of the conversations my colleague has had, this is something we need to hone in on. deeply so at night given that electricity is hardly available. it is not a safe place for women and girls to queue up for the latrine. nightfall is a very dangerous place in these types of settings for women and girls. would also argue for the many unaccompanied children. how what i describe it? that is the current. the vulnerability also lies in the deep poverty and total exposure and lack of safe shelter or any opportunities.

how do you get children and girls back into places of learning? usually we see a family is deeply impoverished and has no opportunity. it is not the girls that continue their education. there are also risks to their future development even if we are in the stage again where recovery they have taken place and educational opportunities are opening up, even in the most creative forms. we have to push here also for the fact that rights are equal, but vulnerabilities are not equal. there is an inequity built in. that is something we have to anticipate. mona: it sounds like with the magnitude that labs over a generation. these are not just changes that are addressed in the immediate term. i want to have you help us understand better the threat we have already seen, the breakdown

of law and order in northern gaza for sure. i don't know how the situation is further south. but, some of the chaos that erupts as a result of security vacuums and governance vacuums. i think i read somewhere something you said which i thought was fascinating. it makes sense unfortunately, which is the scarcity of food itself becomes a driver for conflict. i wonder if you could kind of explain, help us understand better this non-permissive environment in which these challenges are taking place. how do we understand the role of the breakdown of law and order? what kind of additional challenges does that present to your team and others that are working on this issue? ms. kaag: the breakdown of law and order in the absence of the de facto authority, so to speak, the security there was earlier

provided/imposed by hamas, but there was a functioning police force for better or for worse. i will not caveat that further. it has led to this vacuum. in nature, a vacuum always gets filled but not necessarily by the forces for good. despair has crowded out any ability to organize. despair has upped prices for scarce commodities, certainly before the measures of the april 5 were taken. when there was an attempt to increase the levels of assistance. we have seen a drop in the prices for certain commodities, the moment supplies were a little more available or the volume was out there on the market. that had a restorative aspect partially. then, of course, the many months where there was hardly anything coming in or far from a level of

sufficiency, we have seen the crowds. people say this might be the last truck coming, particularly in the north where supplies were short of anything we would call acceptable levels. despair drives many factors. but in a vacuum, when there is no law and order provided by any structured force, criminal gangs, the availability of guns, weapons, the show of force. the strongest or most organized entity tends to rise above. who are the victims? those who have no means, women and children. the ones who tend to be already vulnerable. they can never reach and it has a very distorted, damaging effect and it is a further negative spiral. but, the concern is this holds -- this is why in the security council yesterday but in many other cases, the

secretary-general or myself and others have called for the return of the palestinian authority and the reestablishment of governance. under governance, law and order, security, stability is extremely important not only for the ability to provide aid, but for people to receive it in a secure and safe manner. it is not the law of the jungle that you are entitled to be assisted in a manner that provides for human dignity and respect for the human being. mona: so, there are lots of things i want to ask you. i'm mindful of time and i want to make sure we have time for the audience to also ask their questions. i do want to talk a little bit about the maritime route. this is something that has received attention here. there was recently a pentagon spokesman saying that u.s. military vessels are in the military and region -- in the mediterranean region and standing by pair to construct the pier off the coast of gaza

when given the order to do so. the u.s. was positioned to begin construction very soon, in the near future. tell us a little bit about what role that pier will play. talk us through the mechanism of getting food through this maritime route. how will that work? who are the different actors that are involved in that? and where does the pier fit into the broader paradigm you are laying down related to access? ms. kaag: the pier, the maritime route is part of a bigger picture of diversification of routes. the priority remains what i would say land, land, alnd. land. it is quicker, more protectable and more sustainable. the maritime route evolved as an option as we had the ability to get more goods by land given the

crossings remain closed until fairly recently. it evolved as an opportunity to provide for additional commodities to revive in gaza -- arrive in gaza. checked and verified in cyprus, shipped to the port which is in the middle of gaza, and where humanitarian actors, from a safe zone, receive to distribute further across the gaza strip. it would not be something one would do under other circumstances. it is a testimony to the collective will of the international community to find opportunities by any means to reach innocent civilians and to not only procure, but also provide the level of assistance they need. the port in future could also have a helpful function if it stays because the planning is evolving each time.

a helpful function when it comes to recovery and reconstruction materials for gaza. mona: looking at the questions, you have indeed referenced a few times the world central kitchen episode in which some seven team members of world central kitchen were accidentally killed by an israeli airstrike. the question is what is the u.n.'s position on mechanisms for protecting ngos operating in gaza? you talked a little bit about deconfliction and channels, but can you talk more about what posture is being taken? how to ensure that aid workers are also safe and secure in the provision of assistance? ms. kaag: i think we have to sadly recognize that this conflict has extracted a very high toll of casualties among humanitarian workers, more so

than any other situation. secondly, the need to protect fo or that work for ingo's or ngos is as important as the u.n. family. for me, the whole discussion around deconfliction needs to be applicable to the entire humanitarian community. there's no difference. what we do know in gaza, certainly when it comes to arrangements and follow-ups, ingo's aren't even more vulnerable positions -- are in even more vulnerable position. we need to make sure that all agreements that are reached have to be reaffirmed and applied to all. that requires a lot of joint planning. in a country setting, there's always a humanitarian country team. the ngo's are members of that group. everything is discussed, negotiated together so you have a firm, solid position as one voice on behalf of the humanitarian community. mona: another question that has

come up and i think it is on the minds of many who watch gaza closely. you and i chatted briefly before coming onstage about it and that is your assessment or that of the u.n.'s of what a rafah operation would mean for the displaced gazans that are now very much grouped in rafah, in the southern part of gaza. what are the implications of a significant incursion into rafah in terms of the humanitarian consequences? ms. kaag: i think we can hardly imagine what the consequences would be. but, we fear for the worsening of an already profound crisis. we fear loss of lives. and the secretary-general, myself, we keep asking for the rafah incursion not to happen. we can only predict catastrophic impact on civilians.

gaza is not a place where one can hide. we have seen this time and time and time again in any conflict. it has been most exposed this round. our ability to assist people who are also further confined and constrained. we don't have any visibility on the type of operation. we understand from israeli officials that they state repeatedly that it will happen. and obviously, the u.n., we cannot be aligned in preparation for an invasion or incursion we would not like to see happen. at the same time, we need to be in a position to provide for protection and support. mona: i want to pivot a little bit. your title is humanitarian and reconstruction coordinator. i think it is important in some of the time we have to draw you out a little bit more on the horizon challenges related to

reconstruction. it is something i wanted to ask you. there's also a question from the audience related so we will try to put them together. and maybe have you talk a little bit about what that pivot looks like from early recovery to eventual reconstruction. what role do you see regional actors playing, such as the uae in particular, as one country that has expressed engaging on this? and the question from the audience is what are the options for expanding energy imports into gaza to supply electricity and other infrastructure? even as we think of immediate humanitarian need, how does the u.n. plan and think of how those immediate responses can actually have the seeds for eventual reconstruction and economic development? ms. kaag: i think we are all

familiar with the fairly old discussion of the nexus of humanitarian into development. but there is a period between that can either be drawn out or really short. but we also need to look at in gaza, before i link it to the political parameters, is what we can do in very localized settings if there is no fighting, or almost no fighting, localized conditions that allow for it to really start with the rehabilitation and recovery. my big ask of everyone when i speak is, do not ask palestinian civilians in gaza to wait for the conclusion of the two state solution. however, for the international community, it is very important there is a prospect of a two state solution. regional actors have also made it very clear, a number of them are also stating they are not in a position or willing to invest

without there being the political parameters, prospect of the two state solution. otherwise, who would know what will happen next? the international community has invested many times in gaza. the--have invested in gaza a number of times. each time, the port has been destroyed. taxpayers grow wary in a changing political environment to say, let's invest more time. they understand the human need. they understand it from a human rights perspective. but the actual decision to provide for the massive investments needed over multiple years begged the question first of the political context. so, there is one. then, you need a governance setting. for the u.n. and other countries, the return of the palestinian authority and functioning of institutions is important to provide an environment in which investments

can be made, you can see change, and progress. but we need to plan from now. a number of need assessments have been made available that give you a daunting picture of the extent of the damage on the coast. and we need to be creative. we cannot go after this conflict or this setting now with the same old instruments we applied for another setting of other situations that can do less damage. so, we need to rethink. i am hopeful that once there is a cease fire and a release of the hostages, because we should not forget their fate, and obviously the deep insecurity and fears of their families, that there is a shift in the discussion. and that is also where we need to prepare for that pivot. we need to prepare for it so when the moment is there, we can actually have content-based discussions, what is needed, how shall we do it, who will lead on it? the ideas are there. perhaps the prospects of

financing. then we can start. but my fear would be that there may be a drawn out situation of low-level conflict continuing, limited access, not yet clarity on the governance, and in that twilight zone, we still have a duty of care and we have an obligation. so, that is my drive to look at it in that way. and i am very mindful as a former minister of all the considerations governments have. but my only metric is do we assist people, civilians in gaza? do we give them hope? do we give something meaningful and tangible? people need to see change. they need to live change. they have gone through too much. mona: indeed. part of me is tempted to ask a darker question about whether we are already in the day after.

in other words, there is no day after, there is no cease fire. we are living that reality. but i am not. i am going to try to draw you out of even -- are you out even a little further. have you seen creative ideas out there on how to start thinking, even now, about ways in which interventions now can actually start to play a role in gaza's future one day down the road, reconstruction? one idea i have heard is the rubble, of which there is quite a bit. it could be used to create artificial islands off the coast. are there some creative ideas that you have stumbled upon in your work that you could share with the audience? ms. kaag: i am not sure if all is creative. i think it is very solid.

there are a number of architects who have phenomenal ideas as to how gaza civilians could have totally different forms of housing. short term, but also longer-term. there are wonderful ideas around the preservation and restoration of gaza heritage. everyone has history and everyone has heritage. when it comes to learning, we need to use all the technology available, not being dependent on the restoration or rehabilitation of old school buildings, because these are also used by the idp's. how do you provide schools? how do we get children to learn? across every sector, there is a lot of innovation, there is a lot of drive, and it is a matter of planning it out, but making it come together as a somewhat comprehensive plan. we should not ignore the fact that the palestinian authority has put forward its ideas and wants to take a leadership role,

as it should, in this whole discussion, but also the implementation or execution of the change that civilians in gaza need to see. i will give you one anecdote though which is a program i really liked, and it was called gaza geeks. this was for young people who were playing with i.t., selling products online knowing they would in the 17 years not be permitted to leave gaza ever, but they were given the i.t. skills, they were given, marketing skills they were selling, they were supporting. india, you have a highly skilled and educated population. palestinians in gaza are equally smart, and most of them have graduated. i would also like to see where technology can be used to create the different jobs out there for which you do not necessarily have to travel, although i hope

that for them as well, but you can start. it could be very localized, but the world could still be open to you. i think we need to have technology. last but not least, palestinian entrepreneurs, so many of them are highly successful, willing to put their money out there. it is ultimately building their future country. and there is a gaza industrial estate. there were many companies there before. if you start to rebuild those and provide for the permits and opportunity, gazans can work there. income can be generated. we need to start with a number of exemplary initiatives that have worked,, that have ownership and have the investors. and then, we have to start driving the change. we need to start somewhere because if you look at the sheer levels of destruction it is very easy to be very daunted.

the civilians of gaza, we need to support them. we don't have the luxury to say, this is complex. as fellow human beings, we owe it to them. mona: i want to actually conclude our conversation on that very hopeful and important note. i think you have outlined and given us some very interesting creative things to think about in the midst of a very difficult, to use your word, catastrophic situation. there is always space for hope and creative ideas. please join me in thanking sigrid kaag for spending time with us this afternoon. this very rich and enlightened discussion. thank you. [applause] thank you. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

[indiscernible conversations] [indiscernible conversations]

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