ext time there's a power outage, your home powers up. power your life with generac. call or go online to request your free quote today. >> sandra: fox news alert as we topped off a new hour here a live look at manhattan former president donald trump's criminal trial is suspected any moment now. we have david bh to continue as we wait to see whether he violated a gag order in this case. this is some of what we heard from the former president earlier today. >> they have taken my constitutional right away with the gag order is all it is. its election interference. this whole thing is election interference. so the polls have just come out and i just got another sample. we are leading every wing swing state by a lot and leaving

everything by a lot. >> some construction workers earlier today, john, we could see the former president walking back into the courtroom shortly. we will have that for our viewers welcome to our two of america reports "america reports" i'm sandra smith. >> john: i'm john roberts and with dana perino earlier today someone must have been listening because i think it was little more than a week ago she said trump is stuck in new york which does not mean he needs to be off the campaign trail. there are plenty of things he could do just go around the city and see people and say hi. >> sandra: out he went. >> john: suddenly out he went. prosecutors have shifted testimony with david pecker to stormy daniels the adult film actress who claims she was paid off keeping quiet on her alleged affair with president trump. soon trump 'esteem will get to cross-examine pecker from all the angles. standing by with analysis but nate foy is live outside the new york state supreme court. nate what has come of the

testimony supported a question ?>> court resumes at 2:15 p.m. but notable leave before lunch he believe the motivation behind suppressing stories from women who claimed they had affairs with the former president was to protect trump's campaign rather than his family. he said trump never mentioned his family in conversations about those stories. pecker also said with reimbursing michael cohen for paying adult film actress stormy daniels trump told him he had no idea what pecker was talking about. pecker spoke again about buying the rights to former "playboy" model but he said because he and cohen had concerns it would hurt trump's campaign. he notably he said they did not come from trump himself. pecker testified he eventually backed out of a reimbursement deal for the medieval story w with cohen because of legal concerns. he said he spoke after another

publication about her story, pecker said trump was so upset saying how could this happen as i had this under control and pecker said trump was agitated and the call ended abruptly p report to michael regarding the gag order there were examples were they argued trump violated that order including comments made about his former lawyer michael cohen on monday as well as comments about the current witness pecker calling him a very nice guy. we are awaiting from john marchant whether or not trump will be held in contempt of court. he is required to be here today after judge mershon denied his request about presidential community. trump said he thinks mershon puts himself above the supreme court which he calls "unfortunate." one more note from pecker's testimony before lunch he explained a meeting with former president donald trump a trump tower after trump won the 2016 election where he says

trump thanked him for suppressing the mcdougall story as well as the story that was later proven to be false by the trump tower doorman. sending it back to you, john. >> john: thank you, sandra? >> sandra: joining us now fox news contributor and carrier bond fox news legal editor, carrie, a lot of what we have been anticipating is the coming and going a former president and then out of the courtroom because he stops in front of the microphone. perhaps we will hear him as he enters the courtroom what will happen before we dive in here? >> the defense will have an opportunity to cross-examine david pecker and i want to touch on something he was reporting on. david testified saying before trump ran for office if pecker went to him with a possible negative story that was going to come out about him because remember it was in pecker's best interest to repress these as

well since the national inquirer readers liked good stories about donald trump which would sell the magazine so we have to render beneficial aspect so before he would go to trump and say there are some potentially negative stories and then donald trump would potentially say he had concerns about how it would affect potentially at malanga or yvonne could then pecker testified after donald trump said he was running for office it was only about his concerns were with respect to the campaign and the election and how would it impact those two things. but again, even if that were true, even if he cared about nothing other than the campaign and it was done for purposes of the campaign, suppressing bad stories is not illegal. so we still come back to the same question again which is what is the crime here? >> john: jonathan i want to go to this other issue floating around out there which is whether or not to trump violated the gag order. this morning very early in new york city meeting with construction workers this is what he said.

>> they have taken my constitutional right away with a gag order, that's all it is. it is election interference. this whole thing is election interference. so the polls have just come out and i just got another sample. we are leading every swing state by a lot and we are leading the nation by a lot. >> john: one of the big arguments that he had same uncle don mike michael cohen was on his podcast blaring from the rooftops everything about trump in this case. that trump could not say a thing. here is what michael cohen posted on x yesterday. he said "despite not being the gag defendant out of respect for judge juan mershon and the prospers i will cease posting about donald trump on the podcast until the trial is ended. see you in a month or more" where does the that leave us with the gag order? >> it's a little belated because cohen has been on the air on the

podcast on social media attacking the former president. not just about the trial and the testimony and the charges, but also about the campaign. and i think the judge made a mistake. his order was too broad. it should not have included michael cohen who has been allowed to use this as a shield while attacking trump. we will have to see. i suspect the judge will find him in contempt. the reference recently to pecker will be cited even though it's a favorable reference in that respect. the weird thing is one of those violations when trump referenced one of my columns. but you no, michael cohen responded the same. you have michael cohen one talking about the same columns, same points that trump cannot. in the presidential campaign, there's no reason michael cohen

should have been part of the protection in my view. >> sandra: waiting on the gag order with the punch could be put at what are your expectations on that front? >> i think the judge will find him in violation of the gag order and will find him. he could in theory send him to jail but i don't think he will for a number of reasons mainly it would be political suicide. clearly this judge cares a lot about politics given his donations to joe biden and the stop republicans group in the past and everything about this hasn't screamed political but he knows it would make a martyr out of donald trump so i would be shocked if he went there and have the effect of tearing the country apart so i would be surprised if he went forward with that but i will expect him in some capacity. >> john: let's not forget if donald trump goes to jail his entire secret service detail goes to jail with him so i'm not sure the judge wants to send all those folks to jail. jonathan, i know you are a constitutional law professor,

you've argued before the supreme court but let's take a done of the trial court level. if you were to cross-examine david pecker what would you do? the state so far has said about the date about killing these stories to suppress bad things about trump because i thought it might affect the campaign. what do you do if you come out on cross? >> i don't think you don't have to deny under these facts, there is no crimes here. some of what he said help to. i'm a criminal defense attorney. if you want to hit a witness you don't want to hit every witness aggressively. pecker has some stuff here that seems to help trump. at one point he suggested that trump did not have any knowledge of the arrangement to reimburse cohen. and various other points he suggested that this was all very fluid. that cohen was making these deals.

there is uncertainty as to who would hold the rights, who would get payment and when. all of it seems to come down to michael cohen. sort of doing this on the fly. i also believe the jury will have this weird moment where you have michael cohen saying i think you should put my former client in jail for following my advice. i mean, he was the architect of these payments. he was the person driving this. pecker said he got angry with him when he did not do what michael cohen told him to do. that puts a lot of emphasis on cohen and not trump. >> sandra: as you said all that we are sitting here on the set saying what are these moments? i mean, think about exactly what jonathan turley just said could be the case, carrie. >> i thought it was also interesting that david packer testified that donald trump would not pay for stories normally because he would say what is the point? it gets out anyway.

so, my question is then when did that start and the reason i ask that is because is it possible that michael cohen was making representations on behalf of donald trump that donald trump had not himself endorsed? michael:'s job was to fix trouble though my problems for donald trump and maybe he took it into his own handset i would pay off this person and this person and worry about having us out to mike afterwards, we really don't know. >> john: if i may add a personal note here i dealt with michael cohen a lot between 2012 and 2017 and even after that. and he was, what's a good way? he was very forceful in defending donald trump. so, you have to wonder. he will rip your head off. if you suggested something was amiss let's put it that way. so this idea here, was he as trump's fixer handling all of these things without signoff from his boss, maybe that is something the defense could potentially talk about here on

the cross-examination. and if he is now, jonathan, made out to be a liar who has gone to jail for lying, how much credibility might he hold with the jury? >> i don't think there is a cento of credibility left in his entire body. you just had a judge recently denounced him as a serial perjurer. that wasn't two years ago or last year, that was a month ago. he has a long history of false statements under oath as well as to congress. you won't rehabilitate that. i think what you will see on the stand is a successive reinvention of michael cohen. he is constantly said "i am a new man" he has said that 20 years. i criticized him in print where

he was still representing trump. he used to threaten journalists. he threatened students. he was a legal thug. i have a lot of these columns before he broke with trump. every juncture michael cohen would say i have come to the lord, i am a new man. you know, very few people would believe him. but he has a skill set. he is willing to go to whatever powerful interest there is that could work to his advantage. and there are buyers for that. the buyer is brad. he is just going to put them on the stand. but i think the cross-examination will turn into dawning of the human torch. if i was a criminal defense attorney, this guy is just entirely combustible. >> sandra: stay tuned for the coming minutes because just a moment ago we saw the former president and his legal team reenter the court after that break. things are set to resume in 2 minutes. let's bring in fox news

contributor form u.s. can tourney andy mccarthy, jump on end of conversation. >> to jonathan's point, luca bronte had a skill set too. i don't know that it was -- i don't know it was that much different. i think it is important to recognize that this case began in my old office. this case actually, the michael cohen case when they were looking at trump or campaign violations, this started when federal prosecutors in the southern district of new york. they opted not to bring a campaign finance case against trump. a decision that was not revisited when the biden administration took over the justice department precisely because they knew that the case would rise or fall on michael cohen. for all the reasons jonathan just marshaled, he is a catastrophe in terms of being a

credible witness. i had an important terrorism case decades ago more than i would care to say, where i had an important witness in the case who had a perjury conviction. and it was important for us to be able to look the jury in the eye if we were going to break the case and say we would never ask you to convict anyone on the basis of the uncorroborated words of somebody with this kind of credibility problem. what we commit to you is that any place where he is going to say something important, we will be able to show you a document, a tape, or a couple of other people's testimony that will give you the confidence to know that is corroborated. otherwise, if it's just him speaking, and there is no other support for it, ignore it. just throw it out. and i think the problem that brad is going to have and the problem that the southern district saw which is why they did not bring the case, it is

you can't do that in this case with cohen. many important aspects of what they have indicted here are going to rise and fall on his version of events. if the jury decides they can't trust his version of events that's his case. >> john: we will see if break has the same sense of moral commitment as a prosecutor as you did with his witness. i want to explore something for a second that you talked about, andy, earlier this week. that is this idea that bragg is going after trump for conspiring to cover up his efforts to affect the election. first of all, electing stomach effecting an election is not a crime it's campaigning because that's what every candidate does. you pointed out the payments were made to stormy daniels in 2016. the payments were made to karen mcdougal in 2016. testifying this morning that michael said he had not been

reimbursed for the payment to stormy daniels. and those payments to: in $135,000 that cohen paid did not start until after trump was president. earlier in effect bragg is trying to charge trump for seven that artie happened in the past. without a time machine, how do you do that? >> the reason it should not happen, john, it is just a bedrock matter of constitutional law in this country that you are supposed to be indicted on the charge that the jury is going to consider. that seems it should be straightforward enough but what happened here is brad gets the jury in new york to indict 34 counts that occur in 2017.

all of this stuff about pecker and cohen and what they did in 2015 and 2016, none of that is in the indictment. what is in the indictment are 34 charges of falsifying business records that happened between february and december of 2017. coterminous with the indictment bragg puts out what he calls it the "statement of facts." it's interesting because in most cases the facts don't end the indictment. the grand jury pleads them as one instrument and they are the factual contacts in which the charges come up. here, brad put out a statement where he shows you the crime is the theft of the 2016 election. that may be what it is in his mind, but that is not what the grand jury charged. what you are being asked to do here is that he stole something in 2016 by something they did or that trump did in 2017, which does not make logical or legal

sense. >> john: we will get more notes in the courtroom. andy, if you could stand by this, court will be back in session momentarily, thank you, andy. >> sandra: pecker will continue with his testimony as court has now resumed what we were told out of that courtroom a moment ago is the discussion of exhibits is happening again. jason miller by the trump team has just tweeted out the former president will be speaking to the courthouse press at the conclusion of court today at approximate 4:30 p.m. eastern times we will be listening for that and more out of that courtroom when we return. d suga. uniquely designed with carbsteady. glucerna. bring on the day.

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to be one back in session and manhattan and there is a discussion going on among the judge and the prosecution and defense ongoing exhibits david pecker the former publisher of the "national enquirer" has not retaken the stand just yet. as far as we know, but he will to finish off his testimony. and then to go into cross-examination with former president's attorneys. lots more ahead this afternoon and the president as sander mentioned a moment ago expected to speak when court concludes in the big picture there on your screen. we will see him in about 4:30 or so. in the meantime let's bring out brian kilmeade "fox & friends" cohost. brian, we heard from david parker yesterday and again today that he was paying for the life story of karen mcdougal and as well this doorman. what is known as a catch and

cooperation. the prosecution of course is painting this is something nefarious. pecker said he thought he was doing it on behalf of the trump campaign and making sure nothing untoward about trump got out in the press but cohen says he ordered him to pay the funds to these individuals. but cohen said the big i will take care of you at some point to where are we with all of this so far? >> you didn't save the big guy did you? i thought the other guy was the big guy? >> john: everyone is the big guy. at this level they are all the big guy. >> and to go to the john mccarthy school of what is legal and what is unsavory and i think it's pretty significant that david cohen cannot say definitively that donald trump knew about it. he says i assume and they quickly objected saying what do you mean you assume? you can't assume president trump knew about any of this plus it happened in 2017 which i think a significant. and then you went into this

world of the inquirer where a lot of people don't lean on for quality news. once and a while they get a story like john edwards but for the most part they talk about robots stealing your luggage and things of that nature so definitely looking at a french newspaper that will be a lot of contact and pays for stories true or false to kill them or to have them to make them. so i think we are thinking about this threesome here for terkel people trying to control the gossip section of a very popular celebrity businessman who went on to become president of the united states and after he did he went in there to clean things up especially after rebounding from the access hollywood take. let me take a nonlegal view of what i remember from 2016. the access hollywood tape is a bigger story than anything stormy daniels and mcdougall could put together let alone a doorman with a story that never happened. and the president survived that and wins an election. this goes away after they hold

onto this for my four years of an incident that happened in 2009 and they bring it back in the eight years saying now we will get you on it. everyone's head is spinning i am flipping around saying it is bad but not illegal. the jury knows that. that the defense can safely categorize and say you may not like this, but there is nothing illegal about it. it is not a misdemeanor it's a felony. it's not a state crime it's a federal crime i think that's where the fed earns its money and i think we will learn that quick. i'm also fascinated by how we are forced to do things in the digital age we are basically doing carrier pigeon to get the latest information out of the court built in 1970 ready for typewriters. >> sandra: speaking of which. cohen was brought in and the testimony is sent to resume momentarily a birdie told me after lunch the defense objected

to one of the exhibits 171a. only looking to admit texts up to october of 2016 this is what's happening right now. the defense says the text are prejudicial. stein glass argued they are equal core part of the conspiracy as they show the effort to buy up the stormy daniels story. the judge asks for more time to look at the texts more closely. that's one stein glass asked for his binder back. okay, that is the latest out of the courtroom. >> very telling i don't know if you get up at 6:30 but i know sandra does. when we were on the air this morning the president was meeting with the construction workers. he was asked when he went over there alexis mcadams' camera he said david was testifying and he said that he is doing fine. if david pecker is doing something to hurt president trump's legal team does not know it and donald trump does not know it. he has great instincts about stuff like this.

as far as they're concerned, donald trump so far is just saying what am i doing here? why is this happening? >> john: we have another note from the courtroom. in terms of what trump thinks of david pecker, trump smiled and kind of giggled a little bit when pecker was telling the story of him coming to trump tower for a meeting that trump wanted and trump said this guy knows more than anybody else to which nobody laughed. mike pompeo and the national security forecastle in the room. it shows you know he is probably still okay with pecker even though the prosecution is trying to get pecker to nail trump as being involved in some sort of grand conspiracy. in the upcoming election. >> during 2015 you saw firsthand how many stories ended up planted in "the washington post" and "new york times" that would make hillary clinton look good? that made the russian investigation take route? that gave cnn another six hours of programming and speculation? how many times did david corn and the others that we find out later these fbi agents who went rogue and feed the story about a

russia hoax? now you have someone who is friends with a guy who publishes a relatively offbeat newspaper who says you know, kill the story or we will be good have this in there, okay, you are a source. you handle a source who ends up paying off a little bit later. it's pretty much the horse trading that goes on all the time. be to thank you for sticking around, appreciate you joining us. you have something else don't you? you have something else [laughter] >> i will see you later. >> sandra: we will see you later and a reminder we just got where the former president will be speaking at 4:30 p.m. eastern time this afternoon after this concludes, john? >> john: brian, trust me i love every day at 6:30 listening to you and your colleagues. >> thank you very much. >> john: they are still arguing about exhibits right n now. text messages as whether or not those should be limited to text messages that were sent back in 2016 or if the prosecution wants they can go beyond that date. we are following all the action for you with real time updates

and analysis we will be right back with more right after this.

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be two fox news alert half past the 2:00 hour in lower manhattan where the former president donald trump has returned, this is the third day in the trump trial there. david pecker is testifying back on the stand and the latest update from inside the courtroom the jury is present. the prosecution is reminding of the meeting at trump tower. criminal defense attorney is joining us right now. in my 30s a take, our viewers and anyone listening because we cannot see or listen to it, pecker visited the white house in july of 2017 this is what is being laid out in the courtroom. pecker said he got a call from the white house were trump invited pecker to the white house for a thank you dinner. pecker said he would speak to

his wife and let them know. pecker's wife did not want to go to washington. trump said bring your friends and associates. this is your dinner. pecker went and brought business associates hauer and rod stein attended. this is the very latest as pecker is back on the stand. your thoughts as we lean on any further detail from inside the courtroom? >> great question, it's great to be on with you it's setting forth the foundation. the prosecution wants the jury to believe that former president trump had laid out this relationship with pecker for this campaign so this catch and kill which he had already set forth in the fundamental days leading up to today with pecker's testimony now we are focusing on the thank you. like thank you for doing this catch and kill and for doing these catch and kill's on those three stories. stormy daniels, cate macdonald and the doorman. here is what the prosecution wants a jury to believe.

>> john: we should point out howard and rothstein, dylan howard was the former editor and chief of the "national enquirer." david rothstein was owned a company called investor advisory services which pecker said the money was kind of washed through for a lot of payments for various and sundry things. but still even though there was a celebratory dinner and there was a potential catch and kill scheme here, you could call it buying a story and never publishing it or you can call it catch and kill. where is the crime? >> that is a key question and certainly what the defense will focus in on because we all know the nondisclosure agreements are legal. it is done routinely you have these across the country. you are talking about requiring a nondisclosure agreement and to ramrod this and where is the crime?

the prosecution has to dovetail this entire scheme as they are trying to create and there are two steps into the criminality of it. number one is you had this type of agreement to begin with and the agreement was to affect the election. so you put david packer on where this is all the stories but this is the temporal nexus and right before election summer of 2015. so starting with that the second part is what of the business records? these are business records. they don't say this is part of an agreement. they certainly don't have any notation like that. these are business records that of common and this is for legal services. the final point the prosecution is going to say if this is election fraud because companies like "national enquirer" are limited statutorily to provide

$2700 to campaign. if they are trying to do anything with response to trump's campaign, then it would be this statutory requirement limited to 2700 not the $130,000. so it is murky as what it boils down to. i can tell you as a trial lawyer, the mercury these theories are the worse it is for the ones putting it out. speech and the cross-examination set that up for us. >> and when the prosecution rests the defense go all in. about other stories they have done similar agreements with. they will pinpoint how we just exchanged like where is the criminality you agreed that nondisclosure agreements are not criminal. maybe not yourself because he has testified but certainly there are others that are publishers that have done this

type of agreements for others. and most importantly this will pounce on that he has an agreement for immunity. what do have to hide? that type of bias there is so much control and there is immunity given to a witness and what they will testify. they know if they testify in contravention of that agreement guess what happens question when they are prosecuted. so he understands that he is tethered very closely to the prosecution 'this case that he has this immunity agreement and if he violates that he can face criminal charges as well. as a criminal attorney they will go right to that to the heart of the bias that underlies his testimony. >> john: hey, mercedes we got a info dump from someone in the courtroom let us share this with the viewers here. they were talking about pecker coming down with dylan howard the editor and chief of the "national enquirer" and at daniel rothstein who was the head of investor advisory services into the white house for a celebratory dinner.

at the white house, maria writes, they were taken to the oval office. jared kushner and sean spicer were there, each person pecker brought was able to take a picture with drum. around dinner they asked pecker how is karen and he said she is quiet, she is good. the court then look at exhibit 107 and which included photos of pecker and howard at the white house. pecker confirms it's the time they had the conversation about mcdougall. they got in the text were howard is telling keith davidson who is mcdougall's attorney how the dinner at the white house went. than august 11th 2017 pecker met with mcdougall at a restaurant in new york called il postino. they said that he spoke with davidson and it will be a good idea to have a lunch with mcdougall. he did and then i talked about the articles that mcdougall was preparing with ghostwriters because she thought she was going to be a writer. she was upset because howard changed the ghostwriters because they did not work well with

karen. they also discussed beauty products and karen said she was not pleased because the air articles were taking a while and she didn't have media training to be anchored for radar which is another property that the "national enquirer" has. they said the purpose of the meeting was to be compliant with the agreement here and he wanted karen to remain with our family, so to say, he did not want her speaking to the press after "the wall street journal" article, he wanted to see how comfortable she was. though color from inside the courtroom there as to what exactly is being said by david packer and how all of this fits together. thanks. >> my pleasure. >> sandra: that's the latest, will take a quake dumb a quick break and be right back. at newday we've been granted automatic authority by the va to make our own loan approval decisions. in fact, if you've had credit challenges and missed a payment along the way, you're more than five times more likely to get approved for the newday 100

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>> john: fox news alert as the

trial over former president trump on the hush money case in a courtroom, nate foy is outside the courtroom with the latest. date? nate, are you there? >> hey, john, david pecker the former president of american media is on the witness stand right now. we are learning exactly what is going on. they are starting his testimony regarding his conversations with former president trump after trump won the election in 2016. they are referencing specifically a meeting at the white house in july of 2017 where pecker explains he received a call from the white house where trump invited him therefore a thank you di dinner. and pecker said he would speak to his wife and let them know. trump later asked pecker how is karen doing? and he responded that she is doing well, she is quiet, she is good. there are also some arguments about what evidence will be allowed into the testimony.

we are following this minute-by-minute, john. we will let you know the latest development and send it back to you. >> john: how long is pecker expected to be on the sand expect all day. >> he is expected to be on the stand for the rest of the day. he is still under direct examination right now, john. the defense has not had their opportunity with him either, but earlier the d.a.'s office and they have several hours remaining which that note came at 11 in the morning or so. they said they had three or four more hours left so i would imagine for the remainder or at least a good portion of this afternoon session that pecker will continue to be answering questions under direct examination. >> john: nate foy outside the court on the latest, thank you. >> sandra: that testimony is ongoing outside the courtroom we will take a quick break and be right back. is he? claritin clear? yeah.

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speak to our panel rejoins us now as david pecker is inside that court room along with the former president and his legal team for a third day in this trump trial. at pecker's testimony on the stand continues at this hour. joining us now carry a bond, andy mccarthy, jonathan turley, andy, we are coming up

on a new hour here. a few minutes left in the 2:00 hour and east coast we know former president said he is going to speak on that live shot where our camera is at 4:30 p.m. eastern time, your thoughts of what you have heard outside the courtroom so far? >> what really strikes me especially after listening to your interview with mercedes is the abusive nature of this prosecution really stems from the fact that what they are trying to enforce is federal law, that alvin bragg does have any authority to enforce but it's not enough to say he does not have jurisdiction. the reason that congress created the federal election commission and the reason the justice department and the federal election commission are the exclusive federal agencies with exclusive jurisdiction to enforce the campaign finance laws is congress wanted them

uniformly applied across the country, which of course can't happen if you have a municipal or county district attorney who tries to enforce the laws and makes of the standards of them as he or she goes a long. so you have the situation where as mercedes put it to you there was a limit of about $2700 on individual contributions. and bragg's theory is that these payments the nondisclosure payments, which are otherwise legal, became illegal because they exceeded the campaign limit. that only matters if they are actually technically campaign expenditures under federal law. and when the federal election commission and the justice department looked at this with respect to trump, they decided they are not because they are not direct campaign obligations. the fact that the campaign may have given trump a higher incentive to pay doesn't make

something that is not a campaign expenditure under the law a campaign expenditure. what we are seeing here is a local district attorney improperly enforcing federal law and then doing it in a manner that is inconsistent with the federal agencies that actually have jurisdiction over it. >> john: jonathan we have a minute left before we have to take heartbreak. they are talking about 2018 now and pecker has let karen mcdougal out of her nda but how does all of this stuff with mcdougall and the "national enquirer" fit into this alleged crime that bragg says trump committed? >> it doesn't. that's the problem. it is like listening to one of those people on the new york subway raving about, you know, a microchip in their molar. they may say it with great passion but it's not true. you are listening to this saying he conspired to do something lawful because that is what is involved here.

it's not a federal campaign violation regardless of what pecker may have thought was the motivation or what the law was, it was not a violation of federal law. and the biggest thing to take away from the testimony as it is conflicted. he does not quite know what trump was thinking. he's getting his information for michael cohen and he has various motivations himself. >> john: got it, thank you jonathan for reminding me about the microchip in my molar have to get removed. jonathan and auntie think it we will take a quick break and be right back.

that flew by john grade to be with you. set your dvr your dvr never ms. miss america reports we will have the former president's remarks at 4:30 pm i'm sandra smith's chemically employed to them as the trail continues. i'm john roberts who was you tomorrow, the story with martha maccallum picks up now. martha. >> martha: what a day thank you both of you. i am marth