>> listening to people that drink bigelow tea is so important to my family because making that perfect cup, it's the reason we do what we do. hi, guys. hey. so, what are you guys drinking? >> constant comment when i'm drinking bigelow tea. >> it's just a moment for me. it's just me time. >> that's what a cup of tea is. a moment for you. someone you love. oh it tastes really great. >> yes. it was always bigelow tea. wow. >> that's what my family hopes for. >> cheers. cheers. >> >> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. >> jonathan: dead heat. >> let's get out and work together and get this done. >> we will make america great again. >> jonathan: six months to election day. our new poll shows a tight race for the white house as democrats dig in on abortion. >> this is the new reality under a trump abortion ban. >> jonathan: trump continues to campaign from the courtroom.

>> all of this is greatly affecting our country negatively. >> jonathan: this morning, rick klein breaks down the new numbers, senator tom cotton joins us live, and our powerhouse round table weighs in. campus clashes. [ chanting ] >> jonathan: student protests erupt over the war in gaza. >> we will not stop fighting. this is only the beginning. >> jonathan: police move in. more than 2,000 arrested, many of them not students as universities crack down. >> there is the right to protest, but not the right the cause chaos. >> we have to get this under control, end of story. >> jonathan: the latest from new york city mayor eric adams. and -- >> you've shaken this place up. you are the most activist chair in the organization we have had in the longest time ever. is that fair to say? >> jonathan: lina khan on her aggressive approach to regulating america's largest companies. >> jonathan: good morning.

welcome to "this week." for as long as i've covered politics, politicians have said, this will be the most important election of our lifetimes. they say that no matter how high or low the stakes actually were. election day 2024 is exactly six months from today, and this time the divisions in our country are so vast and the choice so stark there's little doubt this really is the most important election of our time. no more crying wolf. this is it. we have some news this morning on the state of the race. rick klein is here with the new abc news/ipsos poll. as you look at the numbers, look past the top line. it shows the race essentially tied, but that's not what's most important. if we've learned anything, it's that polls are this far out, they're of limited value, and predicting who will win.

our new poll does something else, giving us a stark view of what's on voters' minds and where the campaign is going. here's what stands out. trump has a big double-digit advantage on most of the issues that americans say are most important to them, especially the economy, crime, and the situation at the border. even on the issue of who will best protect democracy, biden and trump are tied, but president biden has a big double-digit lead over trump on the issue of character. he is viewed as more honest and trustworthy, and this week trump gave voters a lot to consider about both character and respect for democracy. in a lengthy interview with "time" magazine, the man who still refuses to accept the results of the last election refused to say whether he would accept the result of this one, and the man who saw his supporters attack the capitol three years ago said there would not be violence this time if he wins, adding, quote, and if we

don't win, you know, it depends. it always depends on the fairness of an election. to be clear, trump says no violence if he wins. all bets are off if he loses. and you may have missed this. trump is now calling for the arrest of special counsel jack smith. he did this in a post on social media shortly before 11:00 p.m. friday night. in a moment, i'll be joined here in the studio by senator tom cotton, a republican who did accept the results of the last election and who has been mentioned as a possible trump running mate this time around, but we begin with abc news political director rick klein with the breakdown of our new poll. well, rick, it looks incredibly close, and third-party candidates represent an x factor here. >> yeah, jon. it is such a close rac

you can see in our poll, donald trump has a very slight edge over joe biden among all adults, but if you hone in just on registered voters or likely voters, you actually get the likely result, and a few-point edge for joe biden, but yes, if you add in third-party candidates, 12% overall said they would vote for robert f. kennedy jr. if he is an option. if he is not an option -- remember, he's not on the ballot everywhere. 30% of kennedy supporters say they would vote for trump. 24% say joe biden. it's not clear what the actual impact will be, but at least initially it looks like third-party candidates like kennedy are hurting trump a bit more than biden. >> jonathan: so rick, we see that trump has a big advantage on many of the key issues, but many voters aren't thrilled with either candidate. >> we're starting to see daylight open up on what's most salient. immigration, economy, crime and safety. these are all trump areas. he's got significant trust in handling these issues. the only area where biden has an advantage is health care and abortion, and on these issues, many say they don't trust either of the major candidates for

president to handle them. >> jonathan: and biden seems to be struggling with key demographic groups that he would need to win and win big if he stands a chance of being re-elected. >> jon, there is significant softness in the support for joe biden among core democrats. in this poll, he's carrying black voters by 61 points. that sounds like a lot, but he carried them by 84 points back in 2024. hispanic voters, there is a slight edge, but it was 21 points back in 2020, and under 30, he's under trump. black voters under age 50, far less likely in this poll to say they're supporting joe biden than older black voters. >> jonathan: bottom line, rick, this is shaping up as an election between two deeply unpopular men. >> yeah. these are dismal numbers for both major party nominees. joe biden favored by only 49% of

the country. 33% of the country only. that's a third of people overall have a favorable impression of donald trump, and here's a really interesting nugget as we look to see what the potential things could happen to change the course of this race. among trump supporters, 20% -- that's one in five, say they would reconsider or no longer support trump at all if he's convicted of a crime in that new york city hush money case. that's a huge, huge chunk in an election that could be as close as this one. >> jonathan: all right, rick. thank you. one more note. if you are an undecided voter in the 2024 election, we want to hear from you. just scan the qr code on your screen right now for more information on how you can make your voice heard in this election. all right. i'm joined now in-studio by republican senator tom cotton. senator cotton, before we get to the campus situation and 2024, i want to ask you about ukraine. you have been a prominent and consistent supporter for u.s. support for ukraine against russia, but right now we are

seeing a situation in the house where speaker of the house johnson is facing an effort to throw him out as speaker because he made it possible for the house to pass that bill. >> well, first off, i want to say i think speaker johnson is doing an outstanding job. i agree with president trump on that. i agree that we have to have unity in our party right now as we face off against joe biden and the democrats. the legislation in the house passed and the one that passed after the house, it was also supporting israel and taiwan, and making sure tiktok's parent company has to divest, new sanctions on russia, the ability to take russian assets to support the ukraine war effort in the future. it was a vital piece of national security legislation. a large majority of republicans supported it and i think you'll see the large majority of republicans back speaker johnson next week as well. >> jonathan: but actually in the house, a majority of republicans voted against it.

>> about two-thirds of house republicans said they wanted to support ukraine in one way or other even if they didn't support that legislation. it was a small majority that voted to cut off aid entirely. speaker johnson has about two-thirds of his entire conference behind him on that specific issue and almost all of them behind him on the question of israel or taiwan, for instance. unlike the democrats who are deeply divided about israel's war of survival against hamas in gaza. >> jonathan: and in the senate, it was a solid majority that supported this, but 15 republican senators voted no, and i was struck by what senator mike lee, your republican colleague in the senate, said about ukraine funding, taiwan, israel, that whole package. he said, it was unadulterated capitulation to vote for that bill, and that it was a bill that was a warmonger wish list. a warmonger wish list pushed through by speaker johnson. are we seeing a return at least in some quarters to kind of an isolationist republican party? >> i think what you see among a lot of republicans, they have

legitimate and reasonable concerns about our defense industrial base's ability to support our own military, much less other countries' wars. i share those concerns, and the way to do that is to invest more in that industrial base. that's a practical difference about circumstances here and our defense industrial base. they have deep philosophical divisions. that's why you see those gazans on campuses chanting vile rhetoric. that is not something that's going to go away. >> jonathan: let me ask you about that. we saw president biden come out. i'm sure you think it was too late, but we did come out and he clearly condemned the violence. he's condemned the anti-semitism. i assume you agree with what he did so -- >> so no. i think you're mischaractering what he did. it was absolutely too late, and it was the pro-hamas fanatics had set up these little gazas. he didn't speak to what they're saying and what they're doing. they're chanting final solution.

they're telling jews to go back to where they came from. they're spray painting buildings with vile, anti-semitic hate. he said we shouldn't have anti-semitism or hate speech in the abstract or islamaphobia. where are the encampments spreading islamaphobia? >> jonathan: can i ask you -- >> engaging in hate speech against jews, insulting jews, disobeying the law, the some fictional encampment -- >> jonathan: you just used the phrase little gazas. what do you mean by that? >> they call themselves the gaza solidarity encampment. they are little gazas. >> jonathan: it seems like you're mocking the situation in gaza. >> a lot of people do deserve to be mocked. >> jonathan: no. gaza. i'm talking about -- >> college campuses.

>> jonathan: the world food program has just now said that there is an outright famine in parts of gaza. tens of thousands of people have died. you're using this phrase little gazas -- >> which is 100% the fault of hamas just like every single fatality in gaza is the fault of hamas, yet joe biden has leaned on israel, has pressured benjamin netanyahu, has told him to stand down when they get attack bid iran, has said they can't go into the last holdout where hamas has its final terrorist battalions. these students deserve mockery. they're out there in n95 masks with their gluten allergies, demanding uber eats gets delivered to them. they should not have been allowed out there. they should have been cleared out the very first day they set up their tents. >> jonathan: it's clear there's been vile stuff going on in some of these protests. people have also been

protesting. >> you can protest all you want. if you want to make a fool of yourself and support a terrorist group. if you are a foreigner, you can't. where's joe biden's administration demanding that universities turn over the students of any foreign students revoking their visas and deporting them? that's something they can do today. you cannot allow them to violate the rules and break the law. where was he sending in the police on the very first day? we should not have tolerated this for a moment. jewish students have been assaulted on campus. they have been told, it's not safe for to you come. just blocks from here, jon, you have one of the biggest little gazas left in george washington university. yesterday they called for a guillotine for the beheading of university administrators. is that not violent. >> jonathan: i said there's no doubt there's -- there's lots of vile things going on, and there's also people legitimately protesting israeli policy. >> jonathan: it's anti-semitic

and anti-israeli. what's underneath it all, jon -- what's underneath it all is a hatred for this country. that's why you find fliers once they get cleared out and it says death to america and blocks from where we sit right now, these fanatics have defaced the statue of george washington. they spray painted it calling him a genocidal warmongerer, and a terrorist head dress on george washington. >> jonathan: that's indefensible. but let me move on. >> that's what joe biden and the democrats are tolerating. >> jonathan: you made it abundantly clear, but let me move onto 2024. you were mentioned as a possible running mate. is that real? >> what we're talking about is 2024. one of the many reasons why donald trump is going to win this election is you've got democratic protesters out there putting a terrorist head dress on a statue of george washington. >> jonathan: i don't know who is a democrat or not. a lot of people are very upset with joe biden. about you, are you -- is that real, this talk of you being a running mate?

>> you have patriots like these frat boys at unc around the country who are defending the american flag and joe biden refused for two weeks to come out and denounce it. that is the 2024 election. now as far as your question is concerned, i know that you and everyone else loves to speculate and it's part of the game of who's hispanic be the vice president, and who will be in the cabinet. i don't think it's particularly helpful to donald trump. i don't think it's good to be out there campaigning and putting stuff -- >> jonathan: would you serve with him? >> it's not helpful. what donald trump is focused on is winning this election. what i'm focused on is helping him win and making sure republicans win the congress. when he's ready to make his decision about vice president, he will, and afterwards, he'll make his decision about the cabinet. until then, anyone campaigning for the job or pushing for the job is not helpful to what we should all be focused on which is winning the election. >> jonathan: you remember what happened to the last vice president, mike pence. did pence do the right thing by

not doing what trump asked him to do on january 6th? >> i think the constitution was clear that neither the congress nor the vice president had the ability to reject those electors. it's also clear it wasn't going to work because nancy pelosi controlled the house. >> jonathan: you were very clear on what you said on january 6th, and in the aftermath. i want to pull up a quote of a specific line you said on that day. it's past time for the president to accept the results of the election, quit misleading the american people, and repudiate mob violence. more than three years later, trump has still not accepted the results. he is still misleading the american people. >> jon, he did it that very day. he put out videos and he put out statements on social media telling those rioters to stand down. just like he had said in that speech. >> jonathan: you said past time to accept the results. >> peacefully. >> jonathan: he still hasn't accepted the result of the election. >> he said that the election was not fair and it was rigged in many ways with democratic states changing election law and practices up to the last minute

with 51 democratic intelligence operatives saying there was russian disinformation. and social media has been censoring those things. social media has been deeply unfair. >> jonathan: donald trump said there were rigged voting machines and everything else. >> i never said crazy conspiracy theories about venezuela rigging the voting machines. >> jonathan: one last thing. he's also calling the people that attacked the capitol hostages, and he's suggesting that he would -- may pardon all of them. i mean, i assume you don't agree with that. >> he would consider them. some of them probably deserve it. >> jonathan: he's calling them hostages. >> some of them have been held in detention longer than -- >> jonathan: you agree they're hostages? >> some have been held in detention longer than the degree of the crime they're charged. for people who were just wandering the capitol who they

thought was open or on the grounds, and where -- >> jonathan: this wasn't wandering. you haven't said this. >> i have said for a long time that the doj is using investigative techniques and tactics that they didn't use for instance when you had a left-wing street militia threatening to assassinate supreme court justices. they're not using. >> jonathan: for the record, you're not in favor for people who attack police officers or broke into the capitol building. >> people who were involved in that riot who assaulted police officers, or who defaced and damaged public property should face the legal consequences, but we shouldn't be using -- >> jonathan: is it odd that the republican nominee doesn't agree with that? >> he does agree with that, jon. what shouldn't be used is every grandma who had a red maga hat shouldn't be sitting in pretrial detention for a longer time than the crimes they might face in the senate. >> jonathan: senator cotton, thank you very much for joining us here this morning.

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(thinking: eddie, no frasier, frank... frank?) fred! how are you?! fred... fuel up to 7 brain health indicators, including your memory. join the neuriva brain health challenge. so let me be clear. peaceful protest in america. violent protest is not protected. peaceful protest is. dissent is essential to democracy, but dissent must never lead to the denial of rights of others. >> jonathan: that's president biden addressing the turmoil on college campuses across the nation, over pro-palestinian activism including vile displays of anti-semitism, vandalism, and intimidation led to police intervention at numerous universities. i'll speak with eric adams about that, but first, the very latest on the campus unrest from stephanie ramos. >> reporter: pro-palestinian protests on college campuses stretching to nearly every corner of the country this week.

protesters briefly interrupting the university of michigan's commencement ceremony yesterday as dozens of police officers also cleared protesters at the university of virginia. nationwide, more than 2,400 people arrested as some protests descended into chaos. at portland state university -- >> police. leave the building now. >> reporter: -- police cleared an encampment that was established inside the university's library. at ucla, an intense scene after the university called in city police. more than 200 arrested there as officers forced protesters out of an encampment. some defiant, telling our kabc, the protests aren't over. >> we're not done. we're not done. we're not going to leave this at that. we're not going to let people

forget what happened. >> reporter: and in new york city, police raiding this academic building at columbia university that protesters broke into and took over. hamilton hall, known for student takeovers over the last several decades. officials claimed the protests there and at nearby city college had been co-opted by outside agitators saying nearly half of the 282 people arrested were not affiliated with the schools. columbia's president defended the decision to call in the police to clear that building. >> it was a violent act that put our students at risk as well as putting the protesters at risk. >> reporter: many protesters are calling on universities to divest from companies that do business with israel. the campus turmoil sparked by the war in gaza, now front and center for the 2024 campaign. former president trump applauded steps taken by the nypd at columbia. >> the police came in at exactly

two hours. everything was over. it was a beautiful thing to watch. new york's finest. >> reporter: president biden speaking on the issue thursday. >> vandalism, trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduations, none of this is a peaceful protest. >> reporter: biden also condemning anti-semitism and threats of violence against jewish students. >> there is no place for hate speech or violence of any kind whether it's anti-semitism, islamaphobia, or discrimination against arab americans or palestinian americans. it's simply wrong. >> reporter: for "this week," stephanie ramos, abc news, new york. >> jonathan: thank you, stephanie. eric adams joins us now. mayor adams, as i understand it, now two of the city's universities have now asked -- authorized the nypd to come in and help clear encampments on their campuses. we see nyu and the new school. what is the very latest in new york right now?

>> and several of our colleges asked the same, and we want to ensure we protect democracy and the right to protest, but we have an obligation that when those protests reach the point of violence as the president stated, we have to ensure that we use a minimum amount of force to terminate what is perceived to be a threat not only by our intelligence, but also the school and college officials. >> jonathan: and you had said that you had been saying for days, if not weeks, that there were outside agitators that were, you know -- that were doing this stuff or provoking a lot of the stuff we have seen on the campuses. so particularly at columbia, should the nypd have gone in earlier in your view? was that the suggestion? >> that determination, we communicated with the college officials for several days leading up to the new york city police department action, and we knew we had to get permission unless there's imminent threat

to life or severe threat to property, and once the school's made the determination, we shared the information that we had. our intelligence division looked at it, and it was concerning to me, but we were not going to overstep our legal authority and right to do so. >> jonathan: i want to read you something that new york congressman jamaal bowman wrote about the nypd's presence on campuses tuesday night. he wrote, the militarization of college campuses' extensive police presence, and arrest of hundreds of students are in direct opposition to the role of education as a cornerstone of our democracy. what do you say not just to congressman bowman, but that this stuff has gone too far -- the reaction has gone too far? >> again, that's the beauty of america. one has the right to have his or

her opinion, and i respect that. i protest it. as a young man for apartheid, and to dismantle apartheid, and i respect that, and we issue this. the police in the city during 9/11, there was one of the fliers that was found inside the protests, and if you look closely, it says death to america. this has left a point of advocating for a particular item, and as i say over and over again, there's a real attempt to radicalize our young people, and when you look at the information and so many people who were there, we need to be clear that we cannot take this lightly, and when i use the term of outside agitators, anyone can protest in the city, but when you are on college grounds and you do not attend that college, you are an outsider, and then when you train people to do disruptive things, you are an agitator.

i'm not trying to be politically correct. i'm trying to be correct for the city of new york as we make sure this continues to be safe. >> jonathan: bottom line, mayor, there are several graduations scheduled in new york city over the rest of this month. are they going to be able to happen in-person and peacefully? >> i believe they should. it's a wonderful experience to graduate from an institution, and i don't think we should allow anything to get in our normal way of life. we will do our job, and if the institution decides to graduate their students and celebrate a beautiful experience for their families, we will make sure it's done in a peaceful manner. >> jonathan: all right. mayor eric adams of new york city, thank you very much for joining us on "this week." up next, what diehard pro-trump republican was a no-show at mar-a-lago this weekend? the powerhouse round table is next. we'll be right back. before you use ai to transform business,

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(♪) join the millions who're feeling the power of osteo bi-flex®, the #1 pharmacist recommended joint care supplement. (♪) find our coupons in sunday's paper. >> jonathan: i'm joined now by the powerhouse round table. we have npr white house correspondent asma khalid, "the view" co-host, alyssa farah griffin, jasmine crockett of texas on her debut of "this week," and david ignatius, author of the new book "phantom orbit: a thriller." david, let me talk to you. i spoke with a senior figure on the biden campaign. what is their level of actual concern about this race? i mean, we hear happy talk publicly, but are there -- are they concerned? >> so obviously they're concerned. this is a close race. this poll like most others shows it neck and neck, a little lead for trump.

how did they hope to get out of this situation in hope of something better? they need this race to become a referendum on donald trump. they need to remind people what donald trump was like as president. i mean, biden's running as incumbent, but trump has a record. they want to fix on that more. i think the thing they would point to in these poll numbers that you're just releasing are the likability figures for biden. that's the one area where he has a real advantage. >> jonathan: what's amazing about that is he has an advantage, but he's not that likable either. they're both very low. it's just that trump is that much lower. >> he's that much lower, and i would say one thing that i kept hearing from the biden campaign people. they feel that the more he's out on the road -- they would like to get him out of this trial because when he's in the trial, he's slumping and scowling, but he's not out doing things that make news that make people angry and upset like the "time"

magazine interview. so again, there's this feeling that as the race progresses, as people see more of trump, they'll remember what his presidency was like, and the referendum on trump, which is what the biden people want this to be, this will push it their way. >> jonathan: what's your sense? >> there are those that are glamorizing the trump years and they were anything but glamorous, but i think that the important poll number that we saw was on health care, and specifically on repro, and i think what people are forgetting is that there's so much new energy because of the actions of the supreme court. right now everybody wants the are the to fix every single thing in their lives, but the president can't fix every single thing, but one thing that he can work on that could become better or worse depending on who comes off the court is the court itself, and that's who's attacking our freedoms. if we lean into the fact that the president gets the supreme court pick, we know these three justices that donald trump got

to pick under his presidency, they are the ones that took away repro access. they are the ones that are attacking diversity, equity, and inclusion, affirmative action. they are the ones saying, you know what? biden wants to help you on your student loans, but they're refusing the help that he wants to give you. >> jonathan: what we're seeing, asma, is the enthusiasm among those core groups. >> that's true. i'm headed to georgia this coming week, and what i want to look at is the big-tent coalition that helped biden win a state by georgia. very tight margins, 11,000 votes. what i heard in so many interviews with people is a lackluster sense of enthusiasm, whether it's black voters. you would call them disaffected republicans. there's a bunch of things that went right for biden, i would argue, in 2020. it was unity and opposition to donald trump. this is really challenging because many voters are looking at this election as a referendum on trump. you know, i was just up in pennsylvania. nonstop i heard about the

economy and people don't feel -- >> jonathan: on biden. >> exactly. a referendum on bide. people don't feel good about the economy. this nostalgia for the trump years is something about the economy -- it's the economy nostalgia i heard from democrats even. lay democrats and remembering how good they thought their 401k was, and they said they won't vote for him for a number of reasons. that's what joe biden is up against. >> jonathan: it seems to be a trick to be making this a referendum on his opponent. >> right, but you see poll numbers are actually some of the better ones for joe biden. if you look at the aggregate swing state polls, donald trump has beat him outside of the margin of error consistently. our elections tend to be decided by half a million voters in a number of swing states and i would caution we might be running into a perfect storm for donald trump right now. what i mean by that is to the point you made, when he's in a

courtroom and he's not on the campaign trail saying, outrageous, scary things, people kind of forget about the crazy. this huge interview he gave with "time" magazine was completely eclipsed by the news cycle and add to that, the protests we're see on college campuses. he risked losing support from the left who risked calling him genocide joe, and i don't know how you convince them to vote for you, and then there were nikki haley soft swing voters who were long order voters and he said, if i feel like my kid isn't safe on a college campus, they might be able to hold their nose and vote for donald trump. >> jonathan: clearly the republicans are trying to exploit this, but they're seeing it happen on the college campuses. you heard this tom cotton. they want to make this wall-to-wall coverage. how do you deal with that? >> i did hear tom cotton. my question is, are young people that are disaffected by the president, are they listening to the tom cottons of the world?

are they listening and hearing that republicans are calling palestinians hamas and calling them terrorists? at least the democrats are trying to do or best to work through this, but the democrats are the only ones being protested not recognizing that some of these people are absolutely so much worse, calling these places little gaza? telling people that they don't have the right to the constitution and their first amendment rights. that is problematic. >> jonathan: how much do you think biden is being hurt though by discontent, especially among the young voters with america's policy towards israel? >> i don't know that he's being hurt a ton. he's obviously being hurt, but when i look at the polling, supposedly the polling says that this actually ranks pretty low for young people, but it's that enthusiasm. the enthusiasm is what we're missing, but i also want to remind people the democrats weren't enthused by biden before. remember, biden was losing before he was winning, before we

saw south carolina, and even once he got to south carolina, it's not that people got excited, but they decided, you know what? donald trump is worse for america, and i think that that is what it will come down to again is donald trump is worse for america ultimately. >> but i do worry that the biden campaign is kind of flailing at conveying that message at this juncture. they have six months to do it, but that "time" magazine piece, that is gold. that needs to be in swing states and they need to be targeting michigan, and swing states, and they need to talk about what donald trump's record is. the fact they cut all aid to palestine, and i don't feel like there's that level of aggressiveness and kind of seeing the setting. >> jonathan: you don't like biden. wait until you see trump. >> exactly. >> i look at the remarks he delivered this week from the white house about the protests, and what struck me because i covered biden's campaign was how he spoke about protests in the summer of 2020 as a candidate. he threaded a very fine needle.

at that point, this was after the killing of george floyd and he spoke about, there's no place for looting and violence, but also in that speech, he called out the excessive use of force by police, and one thing that i know is notable, that we're not seeing in biden's remarks was no comment about the use of police force even there's there are professors being slammed to the ground, and i think this shows how challenging it is for biden to both speak to the progressive left of his party, and the independent moderates who in the polls seem to be on board with thus far. >> jonathan: can you ask how you respond when you saw adams hold up that flier from one of the protests at columbia or new york? death to america. you heard -- >> yeah. >> jonathan: what we've seen, you know, at george washington university, what's your response to some of the hateful, vile rhetoric that we've seen? it might not be all of the protests, but there's clearly an undercurrent there. >> i have denounced all of it, and i think it's problematic and it doesn't matter where it comes from. as a civil rights lawyer for me,

any type of hate should not be tolerated and i thought it was interesting that even when you had tom cotton on, he talked about the islamaphobia, and how we need to make sure we make it clear that there's no place for that, but when you look at the legislation, or when you look at the resolutions, we know that they're not talking about that hate when it comes to the house or the senate. so i think that it needs to be made clear, and there are always bad apples. as somebody who has been involved in countless protests, there's always somebody that's going to be there to be an agitator, no matter what the cause is, but the problem is exactly what you said. it is the response when it comes to policing. policing in this country has never been able in my opinion, to give an equitable response. it's always over the top, and i think that is what's upsetting people on the left is because we see these officers that are slamming professors down and holding them down, and being very violent in response to speech. that's a problem. >> i just would add one thing. at the heart of biden's dilemma is he needs to capture the moderate center. he needs the independent voters that haven't made up their mind yet.

they need to think he's likable. >> jonathan: the republicans? >> and the ones that don't like trump. he's got to fire up people on the left who think he's not doing anything, and allowing the police to come on campus. that's his problem is somehow he's got to go through that very narrow gap, and i would have to say right now, i don't think he's doing it very effectively and the polls show it. >> if i could quickly, i think the economy always registers as the number one issue. >> jonathan: even among young people. >> very much so. far ahead of gaza according to a harvard poll, but i think that he needs to go beyond just stating stats and saying, inflation is down on macro. the economy's doing better. he needs to speak to people's anxieties. some things are outside of his control, interest rates, for

example, but if you talk to anyone under 45, and home ownership is unattainable. that is something people are going to turn out to vote on, and he needs an inspirational message and he's yet to find it. >> one of the things i've made clear is this is a team sport. so if you like a jasmine crockett, and you like the policies i'm bringing, donald trump won't sign my bills into law. it's not just about the presidency. he's the one that's going to sign or veto something, but we need to have a strong house and we know what happens when we don't have a strong house. look at the 118th. we need a senate that will do what's right. >> jonathan: thank you very much. up next, a "this week" exclusive. my interview with a member of the biden administration who's viewed as an enemy to some of the biggest corporations, and an ally of some of donald trump's most ardent supporters.

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open and fair competition, but what we've seen over the past few decades is less competition and more concentration that holds our economy back. we see it in big agriculture and big tech and big pharma. the list goes on. rather than competing for consumers, they are consuming their competitors. >> jonathan: president biden in 2021, touting his administration's efforts to spur economic competition. federal trade commission chair lina khan is the youngest person to ever complete the ftc and she says it's her mission to protect consumers and employees from companies that she says are too big to care. she has found unlikely allies in washington. we caught up with her at the headquarters on pennsylvania avenue. >> the ftc has been squarely focused on making sure we're using all of our tools and authorities to protect the american people from illegal

business practices. >> jonathan: lina khan has become a force in the biden administration winning over surprising allies and powerful enemies along the way. >> jonathan: you've shaken this place up. you're the most activist chair we have had in this organization in a long time, if ever. is that fair to say? >> i'm a law enforcer and in many ways we're undertaking a deeply conservative project making sure we're going back to the roots of what the ftc is about, the actual text of the laws that congress created, and making sure we're being faithful to the law on the books and the legal precedent. >> jonathan: the ftc's aggressive enforcement under khan's leadership has made her a frequent target of business groups and "the wall street journal" editorial board which declared lina khan wears prada after they moved to block a merger between two fashion firms last month. i don't see prada right now.

>> i don't own any. >> jonathan: it's a play on how the devil wears prada. that's how they feel of you. there's no antitrust policy other than the only good merger is a dead merger. >> look. 98% of all deals in america go through without even a second question being asked by the american government. it's absolutely true that when we spot an illegal merger, we won't hesitate to act because if we don't do our job, the american people lose out. >> jonathan: you use the phrase too big to care to describe some of these big companies. what do you mean by that? what is too big to care? >> the whole premise of our antitrust laws is that when companies have to compete for your business or compete for your labor, that's a good thing because they have to jostle one another. they have to try to make sure they're providing you a better price, providing you a better product.

when by contrast, you eliminate that competition and you instead just have a single company, that means that the company doesn't have to compete to get your business. they can get away with mistreating you, and in practice, i think we all too often see parts of our economy where people are being mistreated because companies don't have to care. >> jonathan: through all the predictable critics, khan has also won fans across the political spectrum. >> congratulations on doing a great job. >> jonathan: including pro-trump republicans called the khan conservatives. >> she has brought more people than any person that holds her position in a generation. >> jonathan: does that surprise you to get praise from those quarters? >> antitrust and anti-monopoly has a long bipartisan history in our country and it's because there's long been a recognition that in the same ways that if you concentrate power in our political sphere, that can undermine people's liberties and

freedoms. if you concentrate power in an economic sphere, that can also be a major threat because then you see businesses can get away with coercing people, with dictating terms, with bullying people. so the real ways in which monopoly power in which concentration of economic power hurts people and hurts communities, has a lot of resonance on both sides of the aisle. >> jonathan: her highest profile case came last september when the ftc filed a long-anticipated suit against amazon alleging the retail giant is a monopoly. it's an argument khan has been making since she was in law school. so you obviously made your name talking about the threat of amazon as a monopoly power. in what way is amazon a monopoly. i can buy at amazon or i can go down the street and buy at walmart or target. how is amazon a monopoly? >> a few ways that we can tell it's a monopoly is because it too is acting in ways that involve mistreating its

customers. >> jonathan: how so? >> the fees it charges small businesses have dramatically increased over the last few years so that now some small businesses have to pay one out of every $2 to amazon. it's basically a 50% amazon tax. our lawsuit also alleges that amazon has been using a whole set of secret algorithms to quietly raise prices for consumers, and so we alleged that they have been able to get away with doing this through a whole set of illegal tactics that make it difficult for rival ecommerce websites to really stand up and enter the market and compete in online superstores. >> jonathan: but people seem to like amazon. that's why amazon prime is so popular. how is it a problem if consumers are happy with it? >> this is about fair competition. when people are able to lock out the competition, there are all sorts of better companies, better ideas that are not able to make it to market. our lawsuit alleges that if amazon had not engaged in these illegal tactics, that would have allowed more rival online superstores to emerge and that would be better for consumers who would face more price

competition, and it would also be beneficial for the thousands of businesses that have to sell through amazon. they wouldn't have to just take whatever fee amazon is charging them. >> jonathan: so if amazon is a monopoly, what do you do about it? do you break them up the way at&t was broken up? how do you -- what do you do? >> right now our lawsuit is focused on proving that amazon violated the law. historically we've seen that the most effective remedies are those that stop the illegal behavior, that prevent it from happening again, and that fully restore the competition that's been lost through the illegal behavior. in practice -- >> jonathan: that seems to be the hardest part. how do you restore the competition?

>> that will be the important question for the court and one that we'll be excited to explain to the court how they should handle that. >> jonathan: amazon said you're biased. you've made your name by talking about the threats of amazon as a law student. you said highly critical things of meta, and they asked you to recuse yourself from every decision related to their company. why did you not do that? >> the ethics laws is when you have a conflict of interest. >> jonathan: but got clear bias? you had an opinion of amazon before you took this job. >> i had done academic work. a lot of people that have the fortune of being appointed to these jobs come in through having done policy work and enforcement work, and so, you know, we're absolutely focused on enforcing the law without fear or favor, but we also don't want to kind of indulge, you know, requests that are frivolous or if there's no conflict of interest. >> jonathan: khan hopes her aggressive approach will stick regardless of who wins the presidential election. your term will be up towards the end of the year.

do you want another term as the ftc chair? >> look. in many ways, it was like our work is just getting started, and so we'll see what happens later this year, but it would be an honor to stay on. >> jonathan: do you think your work will continue regardless of who wins the presidential election? >> the bipartisan concern we see about monopoly power, the concern we see about people's data being harvested and surveilled, the concern about financialization of health care, these are all issue that is i think will continue to attract concern no matter who's in this job. >> jonathan: our thanks to lina khan. we'll be right back. >> jonathan: that's all for us today. thank you for sharing part of job. >> jonathan: our thanks to lina khan. we'll be right back.

>> jonathan: that's all for us today. thank you for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news tonight," and have a great day. day.

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