a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome to alex witt reports. we begin with an emotional conclusion and week three of donald trump's hush money trial. a one-time top advisor to former president trump, hope hicks, testified for the prosecution, breaking down in tears at one point. she recalled the crisis in trump campaign with the access hollywood tape became public and then the chaos that followed. von hilliard gives us a look. >> reporter: alex, hope hicks was a crucial witness for the prosecution. she was somebody that was part of a very close knit, small group of campaign advisors in

2015 and in 2016 for donald trump's campaign. she was a confidant who came on board even before he was a presidential candidate, joining the trump organization in 2014 and then she ascended to the post of communications director at trump's white house in 2017 and 2018. she was one of former president trump's most trusted advisors. >> we want hope. for friday, hope hicks walked into court as a prosecution witness in her former bosses hush money trial. mr. trump without smiling stared on, first directly at her before turning his attention to a monitor and papers in front of him. hope hicks admitting she was nervous, at one point becoming emotional, needing a break. hope hicks telling prosecutors the release of the access hollywood tape weeks before the 2016 election was a crisis. "i was concerned, very concerned. everyone was just absorbing the shock of it. it's impact on women voters was

a major concern." prosecutors say the release of the tape helped propel the hush money scheme. esther trump friday are doing none of it is related to the charges he is facing, that he allegedly disguised reimbursements to michael cohen for hush money payments to stormy daniels as legal expenses in his company's internal books. mr. crump, who has pleaded not guilty, slamming a "corrupt, ancient, highly political attack," that he says has nothing to do with this "fake case." >> i'm not allowed to comment on any of that because i am under a gag order. i was very interested in what took place today. >> reporter: on cross- examination, hope hicks was asked about a "wall street journal," report on payments made to karen mcdougal. she said mr. trump did not want the paper delivered to his home that day. she said he values misses trump's opinion and saying of michael cohen, "he likes to call himself a fixer.

it is only because he first broke it that he would fix it." hope hicks testified she was not engaged in negotiations nor was aware of the hush money payments before they were made. saying, she had nothing to do with the trump organization business records. hope hicks testified that she last spoke with donald trump back in the middle of 2022 and that she, not donald trump, were covering the legal expenses ahead of the trial. for hope hicks, a crucial witness dividing testimony to the prosecution. donald trump is now down in florida for a major gop donor retreat, where he is slated to meet with several of his potential vp picks including the likes of former gop primary rifles, doug bergen, tim scott, also senators marco rubio as well as j.d. vance and congresswoman elise stefanik that we are about two months away from the summer

republican national convention and the anticipated selection of the running mate for donald trump. von hilliard, thank you so much. with me in studio right now, katie phang, attorney and host of the katie phang show . take your pictures later, my friend. >> i have to take a picture. >> sitting next to hugo, political investigations reporter with "the guardian." we have the executive editor of ""the national enquirer" when its policy. the stories about donald trump. he's now a special correspondent for "the hollywood reporter." i welcome you all, a significant week out there. let's out what happened in week three with you, hugo. talk about how crucial hope hicks testimony was to this case. >> crucial. i think she was the highlight of the entire day yesterday, not least because i think she strengthened the prosecution's case in two major ways in this

very significant moment when she relayed a description of what trump had taught her was about michael cohen paying the hush money to the women and she basically revealed two things. first of all, that trump had direct knowledge that michael cohen was paying hush money. it wasn't for legal expenses or legal retainers. second fall, she cast doubt on the theory of the case that trump has been pushing, which was that this was michael cohen freelancing, he was going rogue, acting out of supposed selflessness because she said michael cohen is not that kind of guy. he doesn't act selflessly, he likes to take credit. >> the beginning of the testimony, if we go back to that with you, katie, this was about the campaign scramble, when they were hearing about the access hollywood tape. the new it would be released. let's take a listen to that part of the testimony or give you a brief refreshing because we can't hear the testimony but here it is. >> it's like a magnet.

when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. >> okay. that can't be entered into evidence but the jury was allowed to hear it. talk about how that played into hope hicks testimony, about the campaign reaction to this and what she laid out. >> it is fascinating because the reason why judge juan merchan would not allow the actual audio in is because he said it would be so prejudicial to have the actual voice of donald trump saying that and that was billy bush as well, that the transcript was entered into evidence. even right now, you still, we heard it but when you hear it, it is jarring. >> they didn't hear what was on it, it was transcript. >> it was read to them and the reason why it was more jarring was you then i heard it through hope hicks of all people and you heard of this mad dash and panic and all breaking loose in the trump campaign to try to do damage control over this tape.

you heard how the concern is that it directly impacted the campaign. nobody said it impacted trump's marriage, nobody said it impacted trump's children's, his relationship with his children. it was what are we going to do as a campaign to make sure we can do damage control . to hugo's point, from a structural standpoint, you start your direct examination by the prosecution of hope hicks and then you get the cross- examination but the last testimony we get on to rectify the prosecution is her admitting she didn't think michael cohen was charitable was selfless enough to do this, meaning make the payments without donald trump knowing. the last thing she said was it was better to be dealing with it now, that it would've been bad to have the story come out before the election. that is the knockout punch from hope hicks to donald trump's defense. not only is it not michael cohen going rogue but it really

always had to do with the impact on the campaign, which is the case. >> let's get to what you were doing at this time, lachlan cartwright. you were at "the national enquirer" when this was happening. she described the panic ahead of the 2020 election. what was your take away , i'm curious, as you sat in this courtroom, taking you back to that time. also, the efforts of the campaign at least initially, hope hicks did testify saying the initial reaction was to deny. >> that kept coming through the strategy of denying, they were in such a meltdown over the access hollywood tape. here is a stormy daniels. she comes on the scene, she's looking for a payoff, she's talking to my boss, dylan howard, he won't be testifying because he's in australia. he won't be giving evidence. but, it is clear that during that time, the campaign is in total meltdown. here we have stormy daniels with the story of her affair with the president. my direct boss, dylan howard, is in discussions with michael

cohen and keith davidson, who we heard from this week in try and get the story off the market. and david pecker, the ceo of the company i used to work for, testified he's not a bank. he had done two of these payoffs, he had taken the doorman off the market for 30 k and then down the payment to karen mcdougal so he says to dylan howard, let them take care of it as in michael cohen and the campaign.: how to get involved with it. there is this negotiation going on with keith davidson and michael cohen to take a stormy daniels of the market, which they end up doing. >> would you say there was a panic inside the national enquirer," about this ? >> the panic was in the campaign. the panic was going on with the campaign and the corporation was asked of dylan howard to help and david pecker to help take this off the market. >> hope hicks broke out in tears. that was really pretty memorable. you were there, hugo.

talk about the reaction, the moment in the courtroom when she did that. what did people think, did they think crocodile tears, did they feel sorry for her? did they feel it's just an especially stress or that she feels badly, what was the interpretation of that? >> it wasn't like she burst into tears. it was quite slight. she was testifying in and her voice quivered for a moment and she turned away and she asked for a break and the judge granted. it wasn't again outflowing of tears but she clearly broke down. >> she said she was nervous at the very top. everybody knew that. >> that was telling. when hope hicks walked into the courtroom and i was in the overflow, i could see trump's face as she walked in. trump factor walking in, looking at her the entire time. she sits down and he's looking directly at hope hicks the entire time. she doesn't look at him but he's looking at her . the judge says, speaking into the microphone, there's a second

time when the prosecutor says please speak into the microphone. that is when she says sorry, i'm just very nervous. i think the tears came potentially in part because she knew what she was saying was a gift to the prosecution. she effectively said that it was all to do with the election at the very end to katie's point and that trump wanted wanted to deal with this at the time that he did because if it had come first the election, i wonder if the gravity of that moment and the weight of what she was saying hit her and that was what prompted her to break down. >> the defense, katie, how do they handle cross-examination immediately after that? did you think they had to pull back from what they might have intended? >> no. what wasn't asked of hope hicks was how much she had spoken with the defense team before

she took the stand. there is no rule or law that prevents the prosecution or the defense. it is choreography. if you have not prepared a witness, you haven't done your job as a lawyer. i would that at a minimum, hope hicks lawyer had communications with the defense team to know what she was going to be saying when she walked in. it doesn't mean trump spoke to her but i know that they knew on the side of the defense what she was going to say. they didn't dial it back and i don't have any sympathy for her and i will stand through with the idea that i don't know why she cried and i don't really care. she chose to go back to the trump orbit. she was treated as a family, she knew what he was all about in the public and private worlds of donald trump and she was subpoenaed to appear. it is not what she volunteered to show up. in my opinion, you lie down

with dogs, you get up with fleas. there's no one with clean hands in this. in my opinion, i don't think hope hicks deserves any somebody. what about the thousands of americans damaged by the trump administration and the fact that she went back to try to help him get another run in 2020 is galling to me. you had to show up but i will give her some small modicum of credit that it seems to me she told the truth. >> that i think was really crucial. the reaction from inside the courtroom at least once one of believability. here is someone who, as you say, went back in to trump world and she didn't have to. clearly has some sort of loyalty to trump in a way because she was complimented the of trump at the start of her testimony. for her then to make the incriminating comments that she did, the incriminating testimony speaks to her credibility. >> it was suggested that everything she has achieved today, she started working right out of college. she went to southern methodist, she comes back, she starts working for the trump organization. she owes her career, such as it is, she has a consulting firm now. there is a level of loyalty.

you have to presume that because of what she feels she owes them. >> she worked for a pr company. she was wrapping at that point trump's daughter. that is a parlay into her professional life. it was fascinating for me to see her on the stand, she appears incredibly broken by all of this. she was fragile. to katie's point, she went back for more and i found her testimony yesterday incredibly striking because she really did go for the kill shot. that solidified that donald trump had knowledge over the pay off and that is the through line the prosecution has been looking for. we've been building up to this moment, david pecker, keith davidson, hope hicks, this is leading up to michael cohen . >> you guys, you have both been on mega duty today. i will release you.

thank you so much. not you, you have to stick around, lachlan cartwright. you can all watch katie's show saturdays at noon eastern right here on msnbc. we are going to ask you, lachlan cartwright, about a real moment but is an experience you had in covering this trial. we are coming right back in 60 seconds. seconds. e only migraine medicatn that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer.

new and more reaction to the testimony of hope hicks. but all of us in that way back machine taking us back to the flurry of october, 2016 and the panic that ensued after the access hollywood tape was released. >> we've got to start with breaking political news that took place overnight, a very rare apology from donald trump. the candidates forced to say he's sorry after a tape from 2005 surfaced where he said four comments about women. >> hours away from the

blockbuster debate rematch and donald trump not backing down after this explosive video. top republicans calling on trump to quit the race. will the gop abandon its own nominee? >> house speaker paul ryan telling republicans in a conference call he will not defend trump, nor will he campaigned with him. he seemed to suggest he thinks this race is over. >> here's what we can say. we know that donald trump cratered in a bad way over the weekend when news of the tape came out. >> the party has a two people you have to fight your own race, you have to do what you need to do, you can separate from the nominee. >> back with me in the studio, lachlan cartwright, former executive editor of "the national enquirer", when its policy of catch and kill buried negative stories about donald trump. where were you when this tape came out question >> i was in the newsroom. it was the reaction everyone had of like what is going on? i think we were all sort of scrambling to figure out what

impact this would have and how we would, in that moment, look at things. for me, i think the messaging provided by hope hicks, keith davidson and david pecker, it helped block some pieces of the puzzle in for me during my time. >> what have you heard that made it make sense question >> david pecker never sat down and said i've just met with donald trump in august of 2015, i've done this deal to be the eyes and ears of the campaign to take negative stories off the market. there is no memo that went out. if there was, i would have said and not signed up for this. in real time, i'm sort of learning or hearing about certain things, being asked to do certain things and being put in uncomfortable positions at times but never seen this bigger, wider picture. now i'm seeing text messages

going on between keith davidson and dylan howard. there are contacts between the campaign and david pecker and it is putting those pieces all together. >> did you ask questions during that time and say wait a minute, this isn't adding up. did you ask questions and not get answers or get wrong answers ? >> of course i asked questions and the word that would come back is this is what david has decided. this is what david wants. it was david publication at the end of the day. american media was his tabloid empire. but, at no point did anyone say we have signed or got into an agreement to help interfere with the 2016 election. there was no communication regarding that. >> hope hicks testified that she didn't recall being in an august 26 meeting where the whole catch and kill scheme was launched. but, said it was possible she

was there. did you find her to be a credible witness? we got the gist from katie in the last segment but how about you question >> it was clear when she came out she looked fragile, she didn't want to be there as much as keith davidson didn't want to be there, the weakness, the lawyer for stormy and karen mcdougal, who was up earlier. i found her, her answers and responses incredibly bankable. that last one where she really solidified the fact that trump had knowledge of the payment, i think showed her credibility. >> you described watching david pecker in court testifying as a being surreal. how so ? >> i haven't seen them since the summer of 2017 when i left american media. this is someone who created a toxic work environment, someone who is known to scream and shout in the newsroom. here he is a doddering into court. i hadn't seen him for some

time. he has aged and he got into the witness when he was asked an innocuous question about american media and he didn't remember and i wanted to shout out it is in your own closet, mate. just this very imposing figure in my life for many years who had sent me legal threats, had me deported from the country if i was to speak out about some of the things that i knew. send me a $5 million legal threat and here he is on the witness stand almost like my grandfather not able to remember very general details. for me, it was a very surreal and bizarre moment to see him after all these years and then to see he has no regret, that he speaks about donald trump as his best friend and mentor. at one point, he was laughing and i wanted to say, you

interfered in the election, what are you laughing at? you are lucky you have this deal with prosecutors and you are not yourself being charged with these crimes. dylan howard as well, who is named in court as an unindicted co-conspirator, who was the editor in chief of "the national enquirer", the chief content officer, whose name comes up in evidence, continues to be mentioned in text messages. it is a pantomime where it's like dylan howard. if i'm in the jury i'm like where is this guy , we've heard he's in australia, he can't appear because of a spinal injury but he is a key player in all of this and he was the go-between between david pecker, michael cohen at times and keith davidson. it has been surreal and hearing some things, alex, that i had been whispering to france late at night in bars and say i think something is going on here. i think there is a wider conspiracy going on. the stories that we had, the doorman firstly, then karen mcdougal, now these covers and my friends would look at me and say you need to stop drinking and just chill out. you're sounding like a conspiracy theorist. the same friends have been

calling me in the last several days and saying well, actually, i think you are right. >> there you go. i have really appreciated your insights. you are welcome back anytime. lachlan cartwright, thank you so much. the impact of the arrests of a columbia university professor would be talking about that right after a short break. break. just scan the qr code and enter promo code flbogo it only works from the other side of the screen, buddy. you still got a land line in your house. order now in the subway app. (ella) fashion moves fast. (jen)till got a land line so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (jen) that's enterprise intelligence. (vo) it's your vision, it's your verizon.

now to a new poll that shows growing fear for the safety of election workers. it comes days after donald trump declines to say he will accept the outcome of the november election and after he told "time magazine," the threat of whether or not there will be political violence depends on whether or not the election is "fair," joining me now, u.s. special correspondent for d.c. studios. she has covered american politics for 25 years. she's also a msnbc contributor and a new cohost alongside anthony scaramucci.

congrats on the podcast. let's get to week three of the trump trial and the hush money case. what are your thoughts after 11 days of evidence and is it clear to your audience that prosecutors are at least on track to making the case that trump did something criminal? >> the bbc monitors reaction from around the world and it varies very widely. there are some places in the world, particularly in europe, where they are looking at this trial and thinking this is the rollout of the process of rule of law and donald trump is being tried as an american should be. when you look at china, for example, where the chinese medium state-run media are painting this as an indication that america is in chaos, that it is deeply polarized and that this is intensely political and is not a fair trial necessarily. that place into the chinese argument that democracy isn't

functioning. in some ways, this trial is something of a win for america's adversaries who want to use it as another sign of chaos. actually, when you look at more democratic medium in those countries, the report and this as an indication the system is working and that you can have even a former president held to account in a judicial system. i don't know that anyone is following the details as closely as perhaps we are following it in the united states but certainly, they are fascinated by it. i can't overstate the degree to which people in almost every country that i could to were people that i speak to or media that i look at are watching what is happening in this election and this trial is part of the electoral process. >> here's another story everyone has been following, certainly around the world. it regards the "newsweek," reported that google searches related to campus protests out rank searches related to the

trump trial. according to nbc news, focus groups of wisconsin students show young voters are mad about gaza but many don't see it driving their vote in november. do you anticipate any kind of political fallout from the campus protests, and if you do, which side loses more votes? >> that wisconsin pullbacks up a harvard poll that showed that the gaza issue is only a top priority for about 2% of young people. that is tiny. it falls below jobs, it falls below the state of the economy, it falls below the cost of living. on a whole host of issues, gaza doesn't drink terribly highly. but, it does put pressure on the biden administration because these protesters are vocal, the protests are spreading around the country. particularly because of the state of michigan, right? you have your americans stay

home, if even a portion of young voters stay home in a swing state like michigan, which could be won or lost by several tens of thousands of votes, that could swing the whole election. there isn't, in an election where you are playing with margins, where arizona was 10,000 votes, georgia was 10,000 votes, every single vote matters. there isn't a constituency that biden administration can afford to ignore. it was interesting listening to president biden's remarks earlier this week in which he seemed to be saying the will of and lot and process, trump didn't have that much sympathy for the protesters here. the other group the biden administration is looking at swing voters and are they looking at this and thinking this looks like chaos and that is something the trump campaign is happy to point to. >> there is another report to look at, this one by the brennan center. in recent years, more than 90% of state election officials reported taking steps to increase election security. in arizona, election workers ran active shooter drills and maintained materials to

barricade bills. in florida, bullet resistant glass was installed at the tallahassee election office. give me a sense of what states are preparing for. >> i remember going down to georgia just before the midterm elections and interviewing somebody who ran the polling in one of the counties just outside atlanta and she had, she and several other counties had received bomb threats that the fbi took incredibly seriously. this poll worker told me she had been told by the fbi to park her car outside her office window so that it would stop the blast of glass and help protect her if a bomb were to go off. that is how seriously they were taking it. we know from the numbers it has been harder to recruit election officials in 2022 because of what happened in 2020 and the way that we are hearing that trump campaign speaking already

about insecurity around the election and not necessarily trusting the election, is it going to be fair, people will have to fight if he deems it not to be fair, that will put a chilling effect on poll workers. these are people who get up incredibly early in the morning, who worked very hard, many of them are volunteers. my daughter has been a volunteer poll worker, it is long, grueling hours. if you have to add to that the threat of insecurity, perhaps it is not surprising it is hard to find poll workers and that will be a problem in november. >> went donald trump equivocates on accepting the outcome of the election, the threat of political violence, what is the objective? do you think you will be allowed to get away with it again? point to the fact that you have made the point that look how few people are outside of his trump trial in new york city. there's like 23, four, a handful. it is not much. >> the reporting from the trump campaign is he hasn't been that happy with that, he expected bigger crowds to turn out. this shouldn't come as a matter

of surprise. it doesn't surprise me. we saw this from donald trump back in 2015 and 2016 when he was campaigning. i've been to so many trump rallies where, at some point, he questioned before the 2016 election, he started sowing seeds of doubt about whether it was going to be a fair election, whether it will be stolen from him. already putting into people's minds the idea that this wasn't a legitimate process despite everything that we found in 2020, of course, and all the court rulings that showed it was a legitimate process. i don't think anyone would be surprised he would be starting to say this again. but, it does, it infects the bloodstream around the election process. if you have a to your supporters, but, you may not be able to trust this, in a world of social media and conspiracy theories, it starts to make people think if he loses, it is because it was not fair. >> 100%. katty kay, thank you so much for joining me this time and for all of you, we invite you to listen to katty kay and anthony scaramucci on "rest is politics," new episodes drop every friday.

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turmoil during graduations. some schools are making from contingency plans of thousands of students and families gather for graduation ceremonies this weekend. more than 2400 people have been arrested at how palestinian protests on campuses over the past two weeks with some colleges moving to clear and dismantle the encampments. let's bring in peter baker, msnbc political analyst, chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" and co- author of "the divider, trump in the white house 2017 to 2021." looking at this week, president biden reacted to the pro- palestine protests taking over college campuses. let's take a listen. >> we have all seen the images and they have put to the test two fundamental american principles. excuse me. the first is the right to free speech and people to peacefully assemble and make their voices heard. the second is the rule of law. both must be upheld here

>> what did you make of biden's remarks, peter, is there a strategy you can define from behind them? >> he remained relatively quiet about the protests for days. it took about 10 days for him to make these comments since the last time he briefly addressed it in remarks to reporters. he had come under a lot of pressure. republicans were criticizing him for not speaking out democrats were frustrated, at least centrist and water it pro- israel democrats were frustrated he was not speaking out on anti-semitism, the images on tv were very disturbing to a lot of people and they wanted the president to give his leadership, basically, to express leadership on a national stage. he decided come out and be very clear on his balance. he's trying to walk a line between supporting free speech of protesters, even those protesting his own policies, and the notion that there was,

in his view, the demonstrations of gotten out of hand when they have resulted in the takeover of building is, when they're resulted in the harassment of jewish students, when it results in the cancellation of graduation ceremonies in some schools. he's trying to walk a line. it probably doesn't make everybody happy. but, that is where joe biden is right now. >> was at overall widely accepted? i mean, did he turn any of his critics with what he said? >> i don't know. you can never satisfy your critics in today's politics but it did sort tiy at least some of his democratic allies who wanted him to be more outspoken. they were happy he finally addressed this in a forceful way, made clear democrats do not tolerate anti-semitism. that is the thing republicans have been trying to wrap around the biden's neck is the idea that he is kowtowing to his leftist base by not being strong enough in condemning anti-semitism. he tried to rebut that by saying there is no place in america for anti-semitism or hate of any kind. >> let's move to the middle east and on that note. the u.s. is preparing for

israel to invade rafah after months of trying to deter any incursion there. in your new article, peter, you report prime minister benjamin netanyahu is vowing to invade the area, where thousands of displaced palestinians are seeking refuge with or without a cease-fire deal, too, "chief total victory." how did the white house react to the prime minister's declaration and what has happened since u.s. demands that israel provide a humanitarian corridor for civilians out of rafah? >> the president had a tough conversation with prime minister benjamin netanyahu before the iran attacks that changed the conversation for a little bit and he told the prime minister in that conversation that he might rethink his support for israel's war in gaza unless they were some changes and the changes were, as you say, to facilitate more humanitarian goods into gaza to relieve the crisis there and to take more care over civilian casualties.

the white house will tell you they believe that benjamin netanyahu has followed through, at least somewhat, on those commitments. in fact, there are more trucks of aid getting through every day. 5000 trucks a day since the phone call that had gotten into gaza and they believe more needs to be done but that there at least is some progress. in terms of civilian casualties, there hasn't been as much combat in the last few weeks as there had been in the early weeks of the war but what concerns them is this idea of the operation in rafah where there are more than 1 million gazans taking refuge. that is something the administration has drawn a redline on. they say they don't think there is a way to do that without having large civilian casualties and we do not want you to do that. they believe the israelis are listening, even though they haven't made a commitment and if they can get a cease-fire deal, that may still result in not needing a operation in rafah but that is not entirely in their hands. >> given what is going on, you have cia director bill burns, secretary of state antony

blinken was just there, both working on a cease-fire deal. it seemed to be moving forward. is there concern that benjamin netanyahu has said that about? >> the stumbling block they say has been hamas. hamas has refused to take the deal on the table. the deal that israel has agreed to enter the united states says is enormously generous. that was antony blinken's line, the deal to hamas. it would result in a temporary cease-fire in exchange for the release of 33 hostages, hundreds of palestinians would be released from israeli prisons . so far, hamas has not agreed to it. we might see some more signals this weekend from hamas as to whether or not they are willing to accept something along those lines. there have been some positive signals but that is not clear. the comments are meant to influence these talks. what you are hearing from benjamin netanyahu is a way of saying hamas, you might want to

take this deal because even though i'm saying i'm going to go into rafah, deal or not, this is the only way to stop the combat for the next six weeks. he's trying to keep the heat on hamas as part of this negotiation. >> peter baker, as always, good to see you. thank you for weighing in. if it drives you crazy when people pollute, get ready to react to what we will show you next. next. secret whole body deodorant. [street noise] [car door shuts] [paparazzi cameras] introducing, ned's plaque psoriasis. ned, ned, who are you wearing? he thinks his flaky red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. ned? otezla can help you get clearer skin, and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis.

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rainfall. flooding could get worse with 1, 3 inches of rainfall possible this weekend. mexican officials found several bodies in the search for three missing surfers, including one american power. police are questioning people with the incident. the surfers were reported missing a week ago when they didn't show up to the rental unit. here is what we were talking about, take a look at this. the florida teens seen doing this, dumping trash into the atlantic. they have surrendered to authorities be the suspects who went available in this outrageous video now face felony pollution charges and if convicted, those teenagers face up to five years in prison and a $50,000.00 fine. a columbia professor reflects on the historic week on campus. on campus.

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some college graduation ceremonies this weekend are competing with protests over

the war in gaza. some have already been briefly disrupted, like this one today at the university of michigan. the pro-palestinian demonstrations have rippled across u.s. campuses the past couple of weeks, resulting in more than 2400 arrests. one flashpoint for those protests, of course, the student encampment at columbia university in new york city, where the nypd arrested more than 100 people this week. joining me now is columbia university adjunct professor, also a former spokesperson for the u.s. mission to the u.n.. thank you so much for joining me. i want to know what you have experienced at columbia the past couple of weeks and do you agree with the way the university has managed both teacher and student safety while protecting free speech and their right to demonstrate questioning >> sure, alex. in the last two weeks, i will say, as an adjunct professor, i had to take my class and other meetings that we had virtually.

we had other events planned for next week that were canceled, which is unfortunate, of course. i'm not trying to complain but it is unfortunate when that is the main mission of the university. i liken it to a workplace. it is a workplace. if you are in any workplace and your peers were creating a hostile environment to the point where you couldn't pursue your work and responsibility's and tasks, then you have a case to take up with hr. that is mildly putting it how it was the last two weeks. i walked around the encampment, i walked around it right after the first round of arrests, two weeks ago, and again when they came back and then they died down and so i walked by at every phase. right after the first arrests, i was horrified with what i saw, mainly because of the statements and posters that were being shown, calls for a "global intifada." calls to resist the colonial power. i saw posters of known

terrorists because i worked in counterterrorism, i'm not sure the kids knew that. one of whom was with the palestinian islamic jihad, which currently has hostages. i was horrified with that at first. after the first arrest, he also witnessed the administration negotiate with the students truly in good faith, all around the clock, for at least eight days. we were getting as faculty updates every day, multiple times a day at 2:00 a.m., 4:00 a.m., throughout the day and night. the sentiment coming from the president was that she was hopeful for progress in talks. it seemed that things were progressing. he saw as the week went on, you stop that rhetoric i talked about went away but that things became more respectful and so on. at the end of the day, the encampment had to go because of graduation, because of exams, it's sitting right outside the main library. when they reached those

negotiations, when they reached an impasse, the president warned them with increasing threats, first they were going to get suspended, then they were going to get expelled for bringing the police in and ultimately i feel she had no choice. >> was at hamilton hall, was it when they went in, they were distorting property, barricading and the like, was that the turning point? >> this is for sure the turning point. the president told the campus, told the students, told us numerous times she wanted to avoid bringing the police at any cost. she viewed it as a last resort. a lot of that is because of the backlash that came after the first time she ordered the nypd to come on campus to clear the larger encampment at the time. she saw this backlash and wanted to give these negotiations good faith effort but the problem with, aside from the fact that taking over an academic building is unacceptable on any campus but you have exams you are going to

pursue, they are vandalizing the building. you can't be seen and allow disorder on a campus or anarchy on a campus when you've got other students, it endangers those other students, it endangers the protesters themselves, by the way and it is illegal. so, that was the turning point for her once absolutely the taking over and vandalism of the building. and it took a while, by the way. >> let me get to the encampment, of course, the site of lots of messaging but many say it was anti-semitic and promoted violence toward israel. as you know, some demonstrators were jewish, they were there protesting the israeli government, and the killing of thousands of palestinians in gaza. give me a sense of the amount of anti-semitism that you saw and did you see anyone that revealed themselves to be pro- hamas? >> well, so, the one thing i saw myself with my own eyes was the sign that was held by one student, who on saturday night two weeks ago, was pointing at the sign had an arrow pointing

at jewish israeli, pro-israeli students but pro-israeli students saying they were hamas next targets. that to me is blatantly anti- semitic. you also, i had many students showing me, first of all, telling me stories of their yamulka being knocked off. student run text chains where they were to say that, "no zionist allowed at social events." the issue here, of course, now you have is this difficulty in defining anti-semitism. i think is absurd and unfortunately, it lends this, it creates this empty space for students to say that it is not violence and has nothing to do with calling for violence against jews. we all know that they were a

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