progress. >> is this your therapy? >> yeah. i remember being in the hospital and finding everything out and being so angry that i could not get up to go for a run. >> right now, brigida's focus is on embracing life and all its thrills. >> i have gone skydiving. i mean, i have done different things. >> you are living life to the fullest now. >> absolutely. >> that is all for this edition of dateline. i am andrea canning. thank you for watching. watchin this sunday, campus clashes. president biden calls for calm as protests over the war in gaza overwhelm college campuses

across the country. >> there's the right to protest but not the right to cause chaos. >> donald trump and the gop try to capitalize on the unrest. >> we're not letting the radical left morons take over this country. plus, uncommitted. as his criminal trial continues, he refuses to commit the 2024 election results and won't dismiss the possibility of violence if he loses. >> we have to watch the cheating. keep your eyes open. watch the cheating. >> the biden campaign calls trump's comments a threat to our democracy. i will talk to republican senator tim scott of south carolina, a potential vp pick on the 2024 gop ticket. plus, battleground arizona. from abortion to immigration, democratic senator mark kelly joins me in the critical border state that could decide the 2024 election. >> it's close right now.

i don't think it's going to be close on election day. and fighting spirit. >> there's famine in the north. full-blown famine. it's moving its way south. >> cindy mccain, executive director of the world food program, speaks out on the humanitarian crisis in gaza and her husband's legacy. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard, maria teresa kumar, and republican strategist sara fagen. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. as we come on the air, election day is exactly six months away. dominating the headlines, those campus protests over the war in gaza. president biden spoke out about them on thursday after days of silence, aiming to strike a

balance between defending free speech and denouncing violence. >> we are not an authoritarian nation where we silence people or squash dissent. the american people are heard. in fact, peaceful protest is in the best tradition of how americans respond to consequential issues. but neither are we a lawless country. >> more than 2,000 people have been arrested or detained in the last two weeks on campuses across the country as the humanitarian situation in gaza worsens into what world food program executive director cindy mccain told me is now a full-blown famine in the north. some top democrats now stepping up their warnings of the potential political price. >> i am thinking back. other people are making this reference that this may be biden's vietnam. i worry very much that president

biden is putting himself in a position where he has alienated not just young people but a lot of the democratic base in terms of his views on israel and this war. >> now, republicans have tried to use the protests as a political weapon, including former president trump who is back on the campaign trail in michigan and wisconsin this week for the first time since his criminal trial began nearly two weeks ago. >> to every college president i say, remove the encampments. take back our campuses for all of the normal students who want a safe place from which to learn. >> mr. trump falsely insisted again that he won the state of wisconsin. he did not. this week, he would not commit to accepting the 2024 election results. in an interview with "time" mr. trump said he would consider pardoning every one of the more than 800 people who have been sentenced for their roles in the capitol insurrection.

many of whom have pleaded guilty. he wouldn't rule out political violence if he loses. quote, if we don't win, you know, it depends, it all depends on the fairness of an election. this weekend republican donors and potential running mates gathered at a donor retreat at mr. trump's private club in palm beach. nbc news obtained audio of the closed-door event where mr. trump railed against prosecutors and baselessly accused president biden's administration of orchestrating the indictments against him, saying, these people are running a gus topple organization, and it's the only thing they have. earlier, trump said the search for a running mate is in its early stages. >> usually it's done around the convention. it's going to be done and maybe done before you. here we are in wisconsin. we will make that decision, i think, closer to wisconsin time,

if you want to know the truth. it's very early right now. >> among those under consideration to be his running mate, south carolina senator tim scott, who joins me now. senator scott, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. hope you are doing well. >> well, we appreciate your being here. i want to start with the protests we have seen on college campuses across the country. we know that some universities have called in the police for reinforcement. do you think that's the right move? and for those who are protesting peacefully, do you respect their right to peaceful protests, senator? >> well, we certainly respect the right to peaceful protests. what we are seeing on college campuses is too often not peaceful protest. there's a reason why there's been more than 2,000 arrests and detainments on college campuses. it's because people are being hit. they are vandalizing and they are breaking into buildings. what we have to understand is the anti-semitism we see today is akin to what we saw in the

1960s. what we should be seeing as a nation -- the american people are saying it loud and clear, they support eliminating anti-semitism from college campuses. they are being very clear. there's no space for hate in america. what's not clear is why it took so long for president biden to come to the microphone and condemn anti-semitism. the reason, in part, is because his base refuses to let him do so. he is pandering to politics as opposed to standing up for fairness and standing against anti-semitism. i would say this to every college president and university in america. your federal funding is a privilege. it is not a right. a right is for every jewish kid on campus to walk to class safely. what is a right is for every jewish kid to study in a library peacefully.

we need to make sure that every student feels that kind of security on every campus in america. i thank god, kristen, for ben sasse and what he has done at the university of florida. he said simply, we are not going to coddle 20-year-old toddlers. we are going to enforce the laws of this campus. he has done a brilliant job of doing so. >> of course, senator, we did hear from president biden this week who condemned anti-semitism. he's going to be delivering a speech on anti-semitism on tuesday. you have spoken out about the fact that there's anti-semitism in your own party as well all the way back to what we saw after charlottesville and after donald trump's dinner with the -- >> kristen, let me just say this. one of the things we should make sure we do is continue to focus on the issues that we are seeing faced by those students today. this is bigger than politics. this is the kind of scourge on our nation, the thing that scars the soul of a country is when we

don't stand up for the vulnerable. >> let me ask you about what happened over the weekend. you were there for what is being described as an audition to be a potential vp pick with former president donald trump. let me just ask you, did you discuss with the former president the possibility of being his running mate, senator? >> no, ma'am. what we talked about this weekend was how bad the economy is for single parents like the one that raised me. we had a lot of conversations around the room about the importance of eliminating biden onlyics, about the importance of getting inflation back down to 2%. we were just better off under president trump. inflation was at 2%. we had the lowest unemployment rates for african americans, hispanics, asians, 70-year low for women.

we had the highest funding for historically black colleges and universities under president trump. we were excited to have a conversation. we had no conversations about the vp pick, to be honest with you, to be clear. we had a lot of conversations about the failures of joe biden and the success of donald trump. >> a couple of points on the economy. the inflation rate has come down significantly from its high in 2022. in terms of black unemployment, it was at its lowest rate last year, in april of 2023, as compared to 2019 with donald trump. to be very clear, it didn't come up at all? do you think you are on the short list? >> no, ma'am, it did not come up. african american unemployment rate is 6.4 today. >> what about being vp? what about being president trump's vp? did it come up at all? do you think you are on the short list? >> i hope that the president will choose a person who helps

the country unite and heal. i certainly expect to have a decision from president trump in the next 60 days or so. he did not bring it up. i certainly didn't bring it up. i'm excited that in this nation, a poor kid from south carolina could rise to the level of being a united states senator. all things are possible for kids growing up in poverty today. listen to the show and know that all things are possible for your future. >> let's talk about some of the headlines this week. in an interview, mr. trump this week again would not commit to accepting the election results of 2024 if he loses. he still hasn't conceded the last election. you, of course, did vote to certify the 2020 election results. you have said, it was not stolen. why would you join a ticket with someone who believes the exact opposite on this critical point? >> i think we have to listen to what president trump said and not what the reporters said that he actually said.

here is one of the things that he has been very clear and even talking about the situation in wisconsin. what he said was, he expects there to be an honest election. he expects the results to be clear and for him to be successful. there's no doubt that when you look at the polls across our country, one thing that's crystal clear, that the american people now have a contrast between four years of joe biden, they are excited to get back to the trump years. i expect the election to be fair and donald trump to be our next president. >> in terms of what he said, he specifically said, if it's not fair as you are saying, you have to fight for the right of the country. just this week, he said that he won wisconsin falsely, senator. again, to the point, you voted to certify the election results of 2020. it's the opposite of what you said and did after 2020. why would you want to be on a

ticket with someone where there's such a fundamental difference? >> there is clear facts here. president trump himself said he expects this election to be fair. he expects it to be honest. and he expects to win. that's what the presidential candidate should expect. i expect the exact same thing. frankly, the american people agree with him. this is an issue that is not an issue. i'm not going to make it an issue. >> well, senator, will you commit to accepting the election results of 2024, bottom line? >> at the end of the day, the 47th president of the united states will be president, donald trump. i'm excited to get back to lower enflakes, lower unemployment, and higher enthusiasm. >> senator, yes or no? will you accept the election results of 2024 no matter who wins? >> that is my statement. >> just yes or no.

will you accept the election results of 2024? >> i look forward to president trump being the 47th president. you can ask it multiple times. the american people -- the american people will make the decision -- >> i don't hear you committing -- i don't hear you committing to the election results. >> here is the deal -- >> will you commit to accepting the election results? >> this is why so many americans believe nbc is an extension of the democratic party. at the end of the day, i said what i said. i know that the american people, their voices will be heard. i believe that president trump will be our next president. it's that simple. >> but, senator, as you know, the hallmark of our democracy is that both candidates agree to a peaceful transfer of power. so i'm asking you as a potential vp nominee, will you accept to commit to the election results in this election cycle no matter who wins? just simply yes or no? >> i expect president trump to win the next election. listen, i'm not going to answer your hypothetical question when, in fact, i believe the american

people are speaking today on the results of the election. and if it continues for the next six months, we find ourselves in a great position where we get back to another century of american prosperity. i'm looking forward to that. >> let me ask you about the issue of abortion. as a candidate for president, you said very clearly that you supported a 15-week federal ban. you said it was necessary. this week, donald trump is saying, quote, he is not signing a national abortion ban. the issue should be left up to the states. is donald trump wrong to leave that issue up to the states, senator? >> there's no doubt that the dobbs decision sent it back to the states. the supreme court has ruled. the leading candidate, our republican nominee has made it very clear that this is a state's issue. that is the decision that will be made. we will see how the states handle it. there's no question that president trump has been very clear that he wants the issue left to the states with three

exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother. >> you have been very clear as well as a candidate, and your message is the exact opposite. you said back in august, we must have a president of the united states who will advocate and fight for at the minimum a 15-week limit. do you stand by that or have you now changed your view? >> i certainly have not changed my position whatsoever. here is what i'm telling you. the fact of the matter is that every single democrat in the senate and in the house have voted for abortion up until the day of birth. the former governor of virginia has said -- he was a pediatrician. even infanticide, he said stopping -- >> democrats don't support that. that's false, senators. democrats don't support infanticide. late-term abortions are exceedingly rare. as you know, they are exceedingly rare. it's in the state of a medical health crisis.

>> you cannot deny the fact that the democrats have voted -- not talked about, but voted for abortions until the day of birth. that's a fact. you can look that up in the records of congress. i'm not talking about hypotheticals. you continue to bring me hypotheticals. the truth is, i gotta say, this is kind of interesting. the truth is simple. the democrats are radical. 90% of americans don't agree with them. let's get back to following what the dobbs decision created, which is an opportunity for the states to make their decisions. >> senator, very quickly, though, it's important to point out, abortions in later-term pregnancies are exceedingly rare. have you changed your position though? do you support a national abortion ban? >> i support having the next president of the united states be the most pro-life president we have had. that would be donald j. trump.

>> yes or no, do you support a national abortion ban, senator? do you support a national abortion ban? >> here is what we know. it will never get to the president's desk. president donald trump will continue to reinforce the dobbs decision, which puts the decision back to the states. >> all right. senator tim scott, i have more questions. i will have to bring you back on. we will have part two. >> let's do it. >> thank you for joining me. >> yes, ma'am. when we come back, mark kelly tells me, he is very concerned there will be another attempt to overturn the election results in arizona in 2024. my conversation with the arizona senator is next. with the arizoa senator is next.

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welcome back. this week, i traveled to arizona, which president biden narrowly won in 2020 by just over 10,000 votes. turning the state blue for the first time in nearly three decades.

arizona is also ground zero for fights over abortion, immigration, democracy, and the economy. i sat down with democratic senator mark kelly at the mccain institute's sedona forum and asked him about campus protests and whether the police response has been appropriate. >> some of the protesters have become very violent. students, especially jewish students, have the right to feel safe on a campus. they have gotten out of control. everybody has a right to protest peacefully. but when it turns into unlawful acts -- we have seen this in a number of colleges and universities, including here in arizona -- it's appropriate for the police to step in. >> i want to get your reaction to how some republicans are describing these protesters. columbia leadership has lost complete control of the pro-hamas anti-semitic problem.

senator tom cotton referred to the protesters as pro-hamas efz sympathizers, fanatics, and freaks. what is your reaction? >> some of the protesters aren't even students. right? we know that. they are showing up on campuses and they are becoming involved. when they cross a line and when they commit crimes, they should be arrested. that's the appropriate thing to do. we saw that in tucson, arizona, at the university of arizona where gabby and i live, just the other day. i don't think it's helpful for anybody, especially in a leadership position, to say things that are escalatory. i'm not suggesting that every one of those things were. in some cases, i think i agree with some of that. >> what do you agree with? >> well, i mean, you have some individuals, a certain group of them that show up to peacefully

protest. then you have others that want conflict. in some cases have even assaulted police officers. those individuals need to be dealt with appropriately. students on campus should be able to go to the classrooms, get their education, not be intimidated. and the rising anti-semitism that we've seen is of great concern for me, and it should be for everybody in elected office. >> congress passed an aid package that will said $15 billion in aid to israel. you voted to support this. it did not come with conditions. my question, senator, is how can israel be held accountable if the united states doesn't use the leverage that it has in the form of giving aid with conditions attached? >> october 7th was unprecedented

for the country of israel. i mean, they have not been attacked like that from a terrorist group. i went there a week later. i watched over an hour of video of what happened on that day. it was brutal. it was barbaric. israel has every right to respond in an appropriate way. they have been trying to deal with this terrorist organization that literally is embedded in tunnels. it's a very complicated thing to deal with. i used to fly in my previous life off an air crafts carrier, flying in combat over iraq and kuwait. what they dealing with in this dense urban environment is challenging to be able to go after a target when it's near civilians. we never want to see innocent women, children, old people getting killed. that has happened at a pretty high rate here. i brought this up with netanyahu a number of times and with the

defense minister. they have to do a better job. i want to see some changes here. i have talked to the ambassador -- the israeli ambassador michael herzog about this specifically that if we don't see changes, i think it's appropriate to put conditions on some of this aid. >> do you think that prime minister netanyahu has made mistakes as he -- >> he has absolutely made mistakes. a lot of them. i have talked to him about some of those specifically. you know, these are hard problems. i mean, any kind of combat action, especially in an urban environment, is very challenging. you know, if it was the u.s. military conducting this, i think you would see this would go much differently than it went. sure, he has made a lot of mistakes. that's why i have expressed that to him. i have expressed it to the defense minister, to the ambassador, that they have to do better. >> let's talk about what's happening in your state, arizona, is now effectively ground zero for the national fight over abortion rights.

this week, the state legislature voted to repeal arizona's ban that went all the way back to 1864. do you think the repeal minimizes the urgency that some voters will feel to get out and vote for democrats? >> i think women in arizona have been through a really tough time. it all goes back to donald trump's election and what he said he wants to do to roe v. wade. he recently said he broke it. this is all on him. that women in the state of arizona don't have the rights that they previously had. women cannot get the health care they need in this state right now. we have an opportunity in november to sort of fix this at the state level with a ballot initiative. what we really need is national legislation to codify a woman's right to make these decisions. that's only going to happen if joe biden is elected president.

>> would you support getting rid of the filibuster in order to support abortion rights to codify roe v. wade into law? >> yes. >> you would? >> yeah, i would. when we were looking at voting rights legislation, i voted for that as well. i spent 15 years at nasa flying the space shuttle. if nasa had the rules the united states senate had, the rocket ship would never leave the launch pad. so at times, at the appropriate time -- this is one of them -- i would consider changing those rules to make sure women can get the health care they need. >> i want to talk about another critical issue in your state, the issue of immigration. the number of illegal border crossings dropped since the record-high in december. as a senator of a border state, do you believe the situation at the border is a crisis as you have said in the past, as

president biden has said in the past? >> it's been a crisis for most of the time that i have been in senate. >> it's still a crisis? >> yeah. we had the opportunity to fix it. it's the most frustrating thing i have dealt with while i've been in office. probably in my entire adult life, since i graduated from the u.s. merchant marine academy, at work, what happened on that border security bill. we had an agreement. this was negotiated over a long period of time. democrats and republicans and the administration working together, including the secretary of homeland security, on something that was going to provide more border patrol agents, more officers, more machines to detect fentanyl, the money to build facilities to be able to hold more migrants so you could adjudicate their claims.

if they didn't meet the appropriate level to receive asylum, they could be sent back to their country or sent back to mexico if they crossed the border. there were policy changes in there. we were so close. again, one person -- one individual stopped that from happening, and that's the former president. >> i want to ask you about something that just happened here in arizona. the attorney general just indicted 18 people for their role in a fake elector scheme, and this week former president trump yet again said he would not commit to the results -- accepting the results of the 2024 election. how concerned are you that there will be another attempt to overturn the results here in arizona if donald trump doesn't win this state? >> very concerned. with kari lake on the ballot in the senate race who is also talking about how the 2020 election was stolen here from donald trump -- clearly wasn't -- same thing in 2022 when she ran for governor, she's on the ballot again.

these folks have been indicted. i trust our judicial system that they're going to go through a process. however this turns out, we have to accept what that process is. >> republican senate candidate kari lake told her supporters to strap on a glock to prepare themselves for what she called an intense election period ahead. mr. trump told "time" magazine that whether there will be violence around the election, quote, depends on its fairness. you have obviously experienced political violence firsthand. your wife gabby giffords survived a shooting at a constituent event. what's your reaction when you hear language like that? >> it's dangerous. what kari lake said could result in people getting hurt or killed. >> words can translate into violence? >> absolutely words can translate into violence, especially when they come from

somebody who is in a leadership position. kari lake has never been elected to anything. i don't expect her to be elected to anything. but when you are a candidate for the united states senate, you need to be careful with your words. >> i want to ask you about 2024. let's talk first about the senate race here. obviously, senator sinema is not running for re-election. did her decision make democrats more vulnerable in 2024? how do you assess the state of the race? >> i have worked closely with senator sinema over a three and a half year period. her service to the state of arizona, it was significant. at the same time, we now have an open senate seat. >> it's a close race. >> right now. i don't think it's going to be close on election day. >> i talk to democrats and they say, they are worried about president biden's prospects for re-election. >> it's going to be close.

it was close in 2020. my election in 2020 and 2022 were close as well. statewide races here tend to be close. we are a purple state. it's a battleground state. it's also a -- it's going to be a state that could decide who has the majority in the united states senate. we know how to win tough races here. i imagine we're going to see the president and vice president back here again telling the story about what this administration has done and the option of donald trump who again wants to take our country backward. >> senator kelly, thank you so much for your time. i really appreciate it. >> thank you for having me on. when we come back, after being found in contempt for defying a gag order this week, donald trump refused once again to agree to accepting the election results in november. the panel is next. e election results in november the panel is next.

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welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news correspondent vaughn hilliard, maria teresa kumar of veto latino, and sara fagen. vaughn, let me start with you. you have been covering donald trump's criminal trial. you have been covering the vp-stakes. we have this incredible shot with him. where do you think things stand? what were your takeaways from listening to tim scott? >> right. he still has a litany of names. there were two individuals he welcomed on stage, making direct comments on them being picks, stefanik and rubio. i talked to two people in the room. they mentioned j.d. advance who

was welcomed up on stage and he praised him, but he made reference to the fact that vance had made past statements about him that were bad. if you go back to 2016, he said he would hold his nose and vote for hillary clinton because he called donald trump an idiot. it hits at the part that, eight years may go by, but donald trump doesn't forget. we talk about loyalty. he had mike pence, who was not loyal to him in his mind, that's why your question to tim scott about certifying the election results, despite him voting to certify, now is not committing. >> vaughn, it's such an important point because the word "loyalty," sara fagen, is one if not the top factor for donald trump as he makes that decision. what did you make of the exchange that he would not commit to certifying the election results, despite the fact he did so in 2020? >> well, i think a safe response would have been, assuming the election is fraud-free, i will support it.

that would have given him a clear way to move past your question. the reality is this is a litmus test for donald trump. these candidates who hope to be vp don't get to set the rule book by which the person at the top of the ticket is deciding. you are going to see a bunch of them dance, right or wrong. >> we saw that on his abortion answer. he did not lean into his national 15-week ban. >> the interesting thing about tim scott's position on abortion is, he is where the country is. 70% of americans are for a 15-week ban or something more restrictive. that includes 50% of democrats. so i think his position actually helps donald trump. donald trump has the conservative position. go to the states. tim scott has a more mainstream position. together, that's powerful. >> maria, what did you make of that piece of an abortion which is such a big factor in this election? as sara is saying, tim scott didn't necessarily completely abandon his position, but he certainly gave space for what

donald trump is saying. >> let's remind ourselves what donald trump is saying. he's saying most recently in the "time" magazine interview that states can monitor women's pregnancies. you can't get more extreme than that. i want folks to take a pause. you asked him a very simple question. will you certify an election result? he wasn't able to do it. instead what he did was take on a piece of donald trump's tropes and try to beleaguer it and say, no, it's actually the media's fourth. it's the fourth estate that's pinning me down. and they continue doing that when you're asking tough questions to the millions of americans that are now watching, and i think that's incredibly important because at the end of the day, we need to make sure our democracies are dependent on that frns fehr of power and legitimate elections, and we've been able to demonstrate over and over again, every one of those elections have been certified.

>> to be fair, what tim scott was saying is, this isn't going to be an issue. that's what he was saying. >> also, stefanik and vance in last weeks have said they would not have certified the election results like mike pence did. this is a litmus test. >> it goes back to loyalty. let's talk about the protests, which, of course, we have seen on college campuses. we know the democratic national committee is concerned about that. in fact, we have new reporting they are making preparations for this summer's convention to prepare for protesters. how i do this plays? plitt i will speaking, vaughn, how do you think this plays? >> we have three months until the convention. joe biden will speak this next week talking about anti-semitism in the country. this is where we talk about hate speech and the line and what the protests are. we are talking about a fine line being drawn. joe biden being a steady hand through the chaos. at the same time, legitimate concerns. thousands of civilians being killed, famine. we are also talking about for

joe biden as the president, somebody who has to balance that, allowing the concerns to be vented and discussed while also being a steadfast hand in making sure the hate speech doesn't have a place in the united states. >> the issue of what is happening in the middle east, a prominent issue in battleground arizona, as is immigration, as is abortion. interviewed senator mark kelly who talked about the fact, yeah, it's going to be close again. he is bullish. what are you hearing? >> i think of the states that donald trump lost last cycle, arizona is probably the one he is most likely to win. if you look at the folks who have moved into the state, of which there has been significant migration, they are more republican. republicans now have 100,000 voter registration advantage over democrats compared to 2020. between immigration, the economy, and the advantage republicans have on registrations, you would look at arizona as a good bet for republicans this fall. >> what do you think?

>> the only reason that arizona became a purple state was because the sheriff going after arizonian families who are latino. since then, for the last 13 years, there's been base building. young latinos became eligible voters. and guess what? there's 163,000 latino youth waiting in the wings who were not eligible in the last election who are now eligible. if you want to see how you talk about voter registration, the majority of voter registration is going to start happening over the summer. the fact that they are paying attention and they're hearing that they want to do massive deportations internally, that gets everybody on edge. i was with the president on tuesday. on tuesday, he said, we are going to figure out, how do we talk to the undocumented folks? that's huge. >> vaughn, no one knows arizona better than you. what are you watching? >> kari lake and donald trump have to win over conservative voters that they lost here. you can only juice supporters in the state so much.

i was talking to a gop activist. she didn't vote for kari lake in 2022. she told me she nerve mentions the name john mccain. there has to be a reckoning here that kari lake and donald trump are not prepared to do, and that could cost them again in the state of arizona. >> fantastic conversation. thank you all so much. when we come back, he holds the record for the most "meet the press" appearances in history. our "meet the press" minute is next.

welcome back. as we mentioned, this week we traveled to the mccain institute's sedona forum. an event where world leaders talk about solutions to real world problems. it's a gathering in the spirit of the late arizona senator john mccain, political maverick and war hero, who ran elected to the senate six times and ran for president twice. mccain was also the most frequent "meet the press" guest with 73 appearances on this broadcast. in an interview with tim russet during his first presidential run, mccain reflected on how his experience as a prisoner of war prepared him to pursue the highest office in the land. >> how did 5 1/2 years in a prison cell in north vietnam as a prisoner of war prepare you for the presidency? >> i think it helped me define

the principals i already held. it gave me a better understanding of the value of commitment to a cause. i think it made me appreciate that my individual strengths were not sufficient to help me do the things that i needed to do. it was through the example and encouragement of others that i was able to do better than i otherwise would have, although, still not good enough. when we come back, director of the world food program, cindy mccain, says parts of gaza are experiencing full-blown famine. my "meet the moment" conversation with her is next.

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and they're all coming? those who are still with us, yes. grandpa! what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. welco welcome back. the crossing between southern israel and gaza is closed to humanitarian aid trucks after an attack, which hamas has claimed responsibility for. israel has faced growing pressure to allow aid into gaza after its military killed seven international aid workers from

world central kitchen in an air strike. now cindy mccain, executive director of the world food program, tells me northern gaza is experiencing a full-blown famine, that's spreading south. mccain is the second top aide official to make that assertion. she joined me for a conversation as part of the mccain institute's forum. let's talk about the world food program. you have provided aid to 1.4 million people every month since the start of the war. but the war is nearly in its seventh month. how dire is the humanitarian crisis on the ground right now in gaza? >> well, whenever you have conflict like this and emotions rage high and things happen in a war, famine happens.

so what i can explain to you is that there is full-blown famine in the north. it's moving its way south. so with -- what we are asking for and what we continually ask for is a cease-fire and the ability to have unfettered access to get in -- safe and unfettered access to get into gaza, various ports and various gate crossings. >> i want to be very clear. what you are saying is significant, and i believe it's the first time we have heard it. you are saying there is full-blown famine -- >> yes. >> -- in northern gaza. >> i am. >> you are saying that based on what you have seen. >> based on what we have seen and what we experienced on the ground. >> which is? >> it's horror. it's so hard to look at. it's so hard to hear also. i'm just -- i'm so hoping that we can get a cease-fire and

begin to feed these people, especially in the north, in a more -- in a much faster fashion, and as i said, food, water, sanitation, medication. it's all part of the famine issue. it's also something that we need to make sure that the world understands. we can't let this happen. in this day and age when the world has the ability to feed itself ten times over, nobody should starve. nobody should starve for whatever reason it may be. >> the defense secretary said something that caught a lot of people's attention this week. he was asked if u.s. soldiers could potentially be targeted while trying to get aid into gaza. he didn't rule that out. he said that it is a possibility. what do you make of that? and within that context, how do you keep your people safe? >> that's what keeps me up at night is whether or not i can or if they are safe.

can i keep them safe? are they safe? what's happened -- the morning routine for me is to look at my phone and see what's happened during the night. it's something i can't guarantee their safety because as you know, we don't work with militaries. we work with sources on the ground that help us get through. so it's very, very dangerous. as far as u.s. troops, i don't know what the plans are for that. anybody who is on the ground in that region is in danger. >> well, it's anticipated that the united states will finish building that pier, which will help aid to be distributed. soon. in the near future, that's the anticipation. >> that's what i'm told too. >> what are your expectations in terms of the time line? how will that change the situation and your ability to

get that critically needed aid into gaza? >> wp welcomes any ability to get aid in in any way, whether it's a port, whether it's a gate, whether it's air drops, whatever it may be. we support all of that. we are grateful for this pier that's being built. that's another way to get aid in. we need more than one pier. >> you take me to my next question. human rights watch said israel is violating an order from the u.n.'s top court by blocking aid to gaza. israel said hamas continues to intercept aid, which is complicating the distribution. do you believe israel is doing enough to help get aid in? >> i hope so. i have spoken to netanyahu myself. he has reiterated to me several times that it's important they want to make sure aid gets in, that the crossings are going to be open and somewhat are open now.

i believe in good faith that they are doing the best they can. >> to the extent that you can, director mccain, take us inside your conversations with prime minister netanyahu. wahl has your message been to the prime minister? >> we need more access. we need access. we need more ability to be able to get more trucks in. we have right now amassed on the outside border about -- enough food for 1.1 million people for about three months. we need to get that in. we can't dribble it in a few trucks at a time. we need hundreds of trucks. >> the world is bracing for what prime minister netanyahu continues to say will be a full-scale ground invasion into rafah. obviously, there are discussions for a potential cease-fire deal. how would a ground invasion into rafah complicate the humanitarian crisis that is already growing on a daily basis? >> it doesn't just complicate it. it causes such agony. i'm hoping that better senses prevail here and that this does

not happen, for the sake of the people that are stuck there and cannot -- don't have enough food and have no place to go. i'm hoping that something will prevail in these next few days to stop this invasion. but i mean if it does happen, this is a terrible thing. this is it really, really dreadful, things that could happen there. >> if senator mccain were still with us, what would he say right now with all of the unrest that we are seeing, what you and i are talking about, the work that you are doing, the unrest we are seeing on college campuses? what would he say right now, do you think? >> i think he would be very upset. i would think he would be doing everything he could to help mitigate what's going on in the world because that -- he was -- that's what he was famous for. that's what he was good at. people listened to him. i have had instances throughout

my career, this brief career with wp, world leerlds around africa, around the world say, we miss john mccain, we miss his leadership, and his voice. i think that's very true. i think it's a fair thing to say. >> really appreciate our conversation with director mccain. that's all for today. thank you so much for watching. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." ♪♪ ♪♪ well, senator, will you commit