of bates, i see you again. bye for now the i'm asked sooner than say, welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from the middle east. today, the so called world call to game puts the u. s. u u k. on israel on trial for another genocide like case, tens of thousands, mostly women and children have been killed by nature weapons in gaza, while russia and china repeatedly vote. and the un security council for cease 5. egypt is now wary of his riley ethnic cleansing, of more than a 1000000 palestinians at the rough crossing. it's opposed in public,

even by joe biden. and these western european proxies whose bottoms have now attacked. iraq, syria, human lebanon and palestine professor at the time was given the lifetime achievement award by the british academy, author of the new book, 3 wills, memoirs of an arab. julie's emeritus professor of international relations at oxford university consisted one of israel's new historians. you joins me now from oaks, which thank you so much for visitors showing vera coming on the show so well, i used to be with you. you said that the industrial scale sports may have taken israel to the verge of committing genocide. why the verge on want evidence you so far seen in recent days? well, this was, i made this comment by some time ago when there was some doubt. but today, i have not hesitate action in saying that toward user id is doing does all amounts to genocide. genocide is defined by the prevention of

genocide. convention is the attempt intestinal attempt to destroy info. oh you pop in actually group. and this is precisely what israel is doing. and for some time these really is been consuming estimates ending on the west bank. and now they want to to the ethnic tendency of guys as well. and the forcible displacement of civilians is of all crime. so that can be no doubt about the fact that p 0 has been committing all crimes by telling civilians to against the wheel. and the one the 2300000 people in the gun. so user has already forced

1 of them to move south neutrons, but 1st the 0 to the civilians can move from south to the center then from the center to the south. then further and further south and miles out. most of the civilians about a 1000000 in the top of concentrated in rafa on the border full of egypt. so best thing cleansing is beyond dispute. um, uh general aside, some people may dispute, but the lady is riley. next the holocaust study. it said that this is a smoke k textbook case of gentle song and you don't have to listen to the expense or to me. nope, that's a really fun thing to national court of justice. which said that south africa has made applause of the case of genocide. yeah, i want to get on the,

i want to return to his early in the 2nd, but then if it is, then obviously the last all the cost was involving germany, co conspirator cases. then, i mean, no one is acting as of the genocide convention mandates. does that mean an open the way for britain, so neck and, and binding in the united states and as live on the land as co conspirators is given, they are pouring the weaponry without which the genocide could not take place. i believe that breaching and other european countries while supplying is roadways weapons completely saved in euro's war crimes. the best for america, i would like to go further and say that the america is not just complete annual annual cries and even genocide, but the very tie is the enabler of these wally journalists find. and i say these

for 2 reasons. one is that the international community um the while ago wanted to order the complete a comprehensive ceasefire. and there was a resolution to that he said in the security council. so team members voted for the resolution breeching of stain and the united states use the veto. and um and um, uh, re, to this resolution. so we could just have a ceasefire bout for america who prevented the seas file. and secondly, america continues to supply weapons and relations to israel and america, who would threaten to withhold with them said munitions. and these are old have no choice, but to stop the fighting. so the very top is doubly guilty of

obviously patient active participation in the israeli genocide in gaza. and it is probably for this reason that joe biden is on himself and unique day, which is a genocide. jo. well, as you know, they are quite open about the fact in the united states and still bug of nature that this will improve the job situation in the, in the united states, increasingly scarred by disparities of power and wealth has actually comparisons between the nazi war economy and the massive pumping of billions of tax dollars into the united states economy in terms of manufacturing artillery shells with which to mass murder, children in the middle east. that it's best not to make any comparisons between

nazi germany and he's rail. it's best to look if he is or us ret code in america's record. it's bad enough, so we don't need to draw any comparisons. and we don't need to exaggerate the scale of these railey destruction. income age in the guys. a split street is for the american or economy. it's always being the case that the weapons manufacturer is located in the south of the united states and republican areas. love israel because i'm gonna reach out to you see a stroke, $3800000000.00 a milli. trade a year. so this means that american tax, this money goes to use, wrote as a grow and comes back, is a profit to the american military industrial complex. that's number one, number 2,

because the cell is with the state of the art equipment. the other states, one, can we address the balance of cash out to some extent and therefore, buying american weapons. so if somebody makes a profit off the floor and it's the warlords, they, it's the military. industrial complex in america, which is always supported, was everywhere. for this reason, they supported the war enough done each time and they supported the invasion or from iraq in 2003 iraq later on because you a bowl. and the reason i mention the nazis is because genocide that the world code is so ready to learn to all of the, not the experience of, of course, i mean, we're lavender of it was one the prior occasion. but of, of course it's the cause that costs the shadow. when one starts talking about

genocide, it's 81 years since the was we'll get through uprising. a 10th of those who are being killed in gaza were killed. of course, of the use of the word resistance in the, in the way media talks about it in britain where you live. how do you see the debates about what is justified is resistance for some reason your, your prime minister. so neck, a continues to say is realize the right of self defense, which because it doesn't given, isn't occupying power. do you think they understand the historical perils? my problem is, is the, did not see comparison question. do they understand the historical power, those with the will so get through uprising that they must be the north of dust and the town is but nor do they understand the international, which is quite clear on the subject bus sumac install. repeat, however,

like what biden says, they never move really made to from the american position and they keep repeating the israel has the right to defend it so that he doesn't because i'm to international. ready that you have the right to defend you also, if you are attacked by state, but from us is not a state. secondly, if the attack comes from an area that you occupied, then you don't have the right to a self defense. to put it simply, you don't have the right to self defense against the people that your chris more of a. it's a mouse. if the palestinian in speaking goes out,

who will have the right to release of the occupation, including the resistance. so international law is quite clear that the 0 doesn't have the right to self defense. in this case, what's the state of freedom in your country? because your and them and into scholar at oxford university, i've talked to other oaks and professors on this program actually, who i talk about the scale of debate events and help them listed in in britain. what is your understanding of the freedom of speech in britain and in western europe given? you mentioned storm a globally, people that know who he is, but he is the person who is promoted by jeremy colbin. the then leader of the opposition labor policy and who says the things, things like what you've been telling me in this interview are into somebody take you through his mounted the global campaign to be

legitimize the supporters of the vs. or quote divestment sanctions, which is the global rudsford pay to end the occupation. and this is a long violent global from the civil society campaign. it's non violent. i stress that all the main, the minds of the this in trying you mean to national the right a free to of the 1948 refugees, the right of the senior citizens of the state of israel to uh, uh, a quote to equality. and um, and then the 1st few patients, the most important to be box, all these i am showing a connection a little, but he's real and it's many friends around the world of i will conduct a conduct a campaign against critics of israel and the width of my eyes and the somebody

please them and even beat them 3, the government has adopted the international total cost. memorial association definition off and to send me to you soon, and it's a long designation. it's completely vacuous. and the definition itself is useless. it doesn't define anything but then a series of 11 examples or from a list, workmates, a cost acute, 207-2007. awfully 11 examples relate to e's real. b. a of these definition is not to protect you is a game. so i have to send me to them, but protect israel against legitimate criticisms of the occupation. so after so many people as being way per night in europe, in germany, in america ending the united kingdom and the government in this country. there's

time down on pro palestinian protest, professor ivy sure i'm, i'll stop you best or from the author of 3 worlds, memoirs of an arab due after this break the the, the the,

[000:00:00;00] the the welcome back to going on the garden. i'm still here with the marriages professor international relations adults with you to a supervisor, ivy shribel through 3 welds, ma'am, was when our to present time. we said in but one we were talking about this conflation of anti semitism and design isn't it affects clearly those countries

that express solidarity with the palestinians, suffering your birthplace. bagdad was for them in the past few days, a week by british and american. the bomb is a siri or of course is being bombed, gammon is being bombed. it's even more serious for um, countries that express all of that already. then for scholars there, i say, any examples that you personally have had that you witness a lack of freedom and you're not being able to speak on these issues. or are you given free reign in the british media to tell us about your views as regards what we're witnessing as regards of the gaza genocide? and i have been the professor international relations that talks that over the last 36 years and no one that's my university as a try to restrict my freedom of expression. and i still enjoy is i've always

enjoyed complete freedom to express my opinions as i am doing to you in this interview now. but the general picture in the country is not so signed. we know the general picture is that the british government is extremely repressive and it keeps bossing legislation. you know the true a street suite on expression on israel and on the palestinian issue. and the goblin keeps giving the police how powerless to come down on pro palestinian purchased the government. there was a nature major pro palace seen on protest in london a few weeks ago. and i went with my wife and my daughter. they were something like 800000 demonstrators. i do see, i mean,

a searching of all those. those are very good spirited off for our friend displayed, or solely diety, with the palestinians, both of them on 6th street. so a brother mine said the piece was i think to mount and she wanted the police stop them out the police to the petty press use to. so we have an extremely repressive government, which is the enemy of civil rights and which is a blind support, or if he's with dr. young quickly to support a fee as well. and that is a situation here today. i haven't, i cannot complain that nicely them it has been restricted, but i've also had one encounter which is have super super my take off the going in toner is a full supporters of palestine in this country. i was invited to give a lecture by leave

a poor hope university on the subject of my men moss. and the title was design is and the jews of the rock, the personal prospective, a great deal of skill and narrow copy. and yet jews even leave a poor complaint to the university. i'm sorry to use that this would be on safe, and it raised my top would raise appropriate safety. and the university didn't ask me to cancel the lecture, but they asked me to postpone it. and i find right away, they said the case, i wouldn't come now and i was never a time to go into the city because this is not an issue of safety. it's an issue of economic freedom. so academic freedom, immigration is being eroded all the time for critics of israel info

supporters or from palestinian right. and the best example i can give you of these trends. even payton is the decline and fall off. jeremy colby, the previous lead to the labor party who was praying, who was accused of 20 certainly fees and what was an empty racist i'm paying all these life into the opposing anti semitism. there wasn't any evidence that gays to happen. so it is, he's actually mean he's been on this program and arguably he started firing people that were close to him on those fake drummed up. but at the time it isn't charges. it has to be said on israel again, one of the arguable founding minutes was that it was a safe place for jews. so do you think actually, given israel is now giving me the most dangerous plays in the world for jews?

do you think that we on the some see minds are really nothing yahoo and those who enable his government in the bank conflate being jewish with being is riley or i do think that and which i'm, you know, who is a very good example of this combination because many of his friends i could see might like greek to open in hungry like the previous government imposed on the previous government in brazil. these were anti semites, but the pro israel and therefore let them yeah. who doesn't care about anyone, please anti semitic as long as the pro is riley. and this reminds me of something that the field or how it so the vision, real estate, real estate roku,

my evenings diarrhea. at the end of the 19th century. he said the mtc mites will become of the strongest supporters. and we're seeing this phenomenon today at the israel that got mixed up with very nasty company. and this is a slightly different point used real supplies. so, um, inside of the, um, equipment and um, you stopping equipment on those 2 long range of countries on the world, including including some of the most repressive regimes. so these are plays a global role. you're supplying weapons. and spyware too. so large range of from to actually stop trees. you write about your

background in baghdad in your latest book, what does it make you feel? knowing your government in britain is bombing iraq. again, i am absolutely horrified by british policy towards these very palestinian phone 3 and this is just one example of the contemporary example, but it's a whole policy towards the israeli. palestinian conflict is this is computer also is computer rubbish. it doesn't make any sense because peter says that the 2 parties should negotiate directly the resolution of the conflict between them. that the him being any piece stokes for tell me is israel the president on, refuses to have any peace stokes,

with the palestinians. and to say the 2 parties should get together and resolve the difference is, is like putting a lion in, arrive between the cage and telling them to sort out the differences, the 2 state solution. you have changed your level now and recognize that actually only a one state solution is possible. what do you feel? and people completely ignore the idea of a one state solution and continue to a 0 button does as a nato nation. leaders continue to do what is wrong with them going on and on about this 2 state solution. as i used to support the 2 state solution which would have given the measure of justice to the palestinians. and since 1967, this being the broadest possible international consensus between the 2 states behind the idea of

a 2 state solution. and it says, become fashionable to say that the two's said solution is that it is indeed that because these ro, she'll be used for al kill date by building supplements and expanding supplements on the waste time and by. i'm exceed east jerusalem. and by building the circle separation will on the west bank, the separation war is closed behind the apartheid. or israel eliminated the cost would be the p. o, for example, palestine estate. all that is left to the products females on the west bank is inc . a, surrounded by use regularly settlements and military bases. so i say my starting point, now you said this to state solution is dead and these are all has to be

a good for her to say. the 2 state solution was never bone. it was never born because nobody's really done when since 1967 is a offered a palestinian state on time, such would be acceptable to the most moderate honesty and liter. the 1st of all. and secondly, no american government is a push this through into a to a state of solution. so this is just a convenient phrase for people like buying them. some of them delayed and they keep the balance at 2 state solution. but the reality is that you come to have a 2 state solution, and that's why i have change my views. and now i support the only the product solution to this conflict, which is one state from the golden river to do me to a nancy with equal rights. equal rights for all the citizens,

regardless of nationality. office needs to be all religion. yeah, i think the only way, i think you are a police forces over there. don't seem to realize that the, from the river to the c means for jews, christians and wisdom is just finally you mentioned the apartheid will. nelson mandela strategy was of course violence, and the great mount you bridge on the peaceful, much great bunch of we're done, resulted in tens of thousands killed by us, u. k. u. um the weapons at that border apartheid will. what, what would you do if you were a palestinian teenager right now in gaza? would you, uh, would you go with mandela? would you go with gundy a little? i would go, we've mendera and i would put my trust, you know, civil society because i have no confidence that the western governments would

change the position on israel. but there is a gap. there is a disconnect between wisdom, governments and the publics. the publics are increasingly pro palestinian, the demonstrations from the arab world, and the is nomic with the rest of the world in support of the palestinians. so public opinion shifting very, very dramatically now because of the genocide in gaza against these around any pharaoh for products the news. and therefore, i would, um i uh, i think that the steam is the only hope of the best hope is that public opinion will continue to change and the international criminal court will take action

will proceed with the investigation of will crime scene the occupied territories. and that the international court of justice will eventually issue an opinion which would told israel to be guilty of genocide professor every time. thank you you too bye. that's it for the show of continued condolences to those surviving the getting and guys of jerusalem 11 and iraq human and syria will be back with the brand new episodes and saturday until then keep in touch. why will that social media, or if it's not sensitive in your country and, and to our general going underground tv, hon. don't come to us. new and old episodes are going underground. see, is that the

hello and welcome to the boss stuff full board. here we discuss the wheel and the reward is military drills involving normally strategic nuclear weapons. the president says it's a clear message to the west of where it's increasingly political, putting boots on the ground in new correct. meantime, ukrainian dro type kill 7 civilians in the belgrade region that comes off to the u . k. gates and not to the use of the weapons to stripe prussian territory. it's a case of people over about politics in the again, defending gets trade relations with russia, saying if it didn't maintain