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it was long before jack smith was active. we pressed on how the aides and even lawyers seemed to become directly involved not just making arguments or defending things, which they are allowed to do, but in advancing active work that appeared to break the law, which could be indictable. and these leads that we built on, investigators followed them. here we are in our special right now. i'm going to air that exchange and him ultimately admitting it. not defending its legality but saying he did it with giuliani. that is trying to put in false electors and we're airing this in the full context, about 90 seconds from the original interview and you will hear him admit the very elector plan that he's indicted for this week in arizona. >> there's also been reporting about the attempt to seat fraud due lent electors. is that something you worked on or would support in michigan? >> that's so funny. >> not fraudulent. >> we fought to seat the electors. the trump campaign asked us to do that. did you ever make calls like that regarding w
it was long before jack smith was active. we pressed on how the aides and even lawyers seemed to become directly involved not just making arguments or defending things, which they are allowed to do, but in advancing active work that appeared to break the law, which could be indictable. and these leads that we built on, investigators followed them. here we are in our special right now. i'm going to air that exchange and him ultimately admitting it. not defending its legality but saying he did it...
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in fact, that's one of the reasons that jack smith's team recorded the all of their interviews of witnesses and provided actual transcripts in the mar-a-lago documents investigation because they didn't want to be confused of having incomplete fbi 302s, so bove should have known going in there that that is a criticism that can be lobbed at any fbi 302. the other thing i wanted to say about sue's observation that trump is tired. there have been days trump has been alone. they have seen the criticism in the press about him falling asleep and/or how small he seems when he's solitary, so he is always accompanied by one of his lawyers directly adjacent to him now when they go to these long side bars. >> they actually shuffled over to make sure there's someone sitting next to him. >> so they actually change seats? i just want to -- i just want to clarify that point, a lawyer will actually change seats to be sitting next to donald trump when the others may have gone up to the bench? >> that's absolutely true, and it seems like the strategy is twofold. one, to make sure he always has company and doe
in fact, that's one of the reasons that jack smith's team recorded the all of their interviews of witnesses and provided actual transcripts in the mar-a-lago documents investigation because they didn't want to be confused of having incomplete fbi 302s, so bove should have known going in there that that is a criticism that can be lobbed at any fbi 302. the other thing i wanted to say about sue's observation that trump is tired. there have been days trump has been alone. they have seen the...
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whatever they decide, if there is an actual trial, let's say they do side with jack smith as a special counsel, trial would start about three months after that, and it is estimated that a trial could take up to 12 weeks. all this timing is critical, of course, because we're now 192 days away from november 5th, election day. it is not a lot of time here and the justices in some ways really understand that. as you said, you played that clip of neil gorsuch saying whatever they write, they're writing a rule for the ages. over and over again we heard the justices and lawyers talk about the stakes of this case. so it will be really interesting to see what happens as election day comes upon us. >> yamiche alcindor, thank you very much. glen, trump's lawyer conceded during the arguments that some of the acts that trump is accused of were not official acts. here is an exchange. >> the petitioner turned to a private attorney, was willing to spread false claims of election fraud to spearhead his challenges to the election results. private? petitioner conspired with another private attorney who c
whatever they decide, if there is an actual trial, let's say they do side with jack smith as a special counsel, trial would start about three months after that, and it is estimated that a trial could take up to 12 weeks. all this timing is critical, of course, because we're now 192 days away from november 5th, election day. it is not a lot of time here and the justices in some ways really understand that. as you said, you played that clip of neil gorsuch saying whatever they write, they're...
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jack smith can say, i'll pare this down and include only the crimes that are private acts. or as the lawyer for the solicitor general -- or for the special counsel said yesterday, thinking of donald trump in his role as office holder versus office seeker. there are a lot of acts here as office seeker where i think he could say, fine, even if -- you know, we'll litigate these issues another day, but i'm ready to go to trial on just these issues relating to his private acts. if that's the case, i think that this case could go to trial before the election. >> that's interesting. we'll keep an eye on that. jen, as you know, the trump team has always felt a delay is a win for them with the theory of the case being, if they can push all of this stuff back with delay, delay, delay, past election day, he gets himself re-elected, makes it all go away. on the other side of that, though, as you also know very well, talking to people around the biden campaign, they are not counting on these cases to save them. they are running a campaign to win. they do believe that his sitting in cour
jack smith can say, i'll pare this down and include only the crimes that are private acts. or as the lawyer for the solicitor general -- or for the special counsel said yesterday, thinking of donald trump in his role as office holder versus office seeker. there are a lot of acts here as office seeker where i think he could say, fine, even if -- you know, we'll litigate these issues another day, but i'm ready to go to trial on just these issues relating to his private acts. if that's the case, i...
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he represents special counsel jack smith. putting that out there bribery, treason, sedition, murder, and here conspiring to use fraud to overturn the results of an election and perpetuate himself in power. this is the entire ball game. it's not something you can slice in half and come up with a tidier way that keeps you out of the politics -- >> if you're someone who studied the 2025 project, the platform for a second term term, there is no separation at the policy level between trump, the private person who would act, and trump the wannabe resident again in his official acts. they are together officially and publicly. when he ran the first time, to unearth what he really wanted to do with the border. it was a scoop and leak that led to the store we know about and covered the part to do illegal things at the border. it's in a document and you can keyword search it and the official and private acts of the second term agenda. what they do doesn't just matter in terms of the first-ever file and transfer of power in america havin
he represents special counsel jack smith. putting that out there bribery, treason, sedition, murder, and here conspiring to use fraud to overturn the results of an election and perpetuate himself in power. this is the entire ball game. it's not something you can slice in half and come up with a tidier way that keeps you out of the politics -- >> if you're someone who studied the 2025 project, the platform for a second term term, there is no separation at the policy level between trump,...
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. >> i thought it had to be a dispiriting day for special counsel, jack smith. you saw, one after another, the members of the conservative majority on the court basically signal discomfort with his position and some degree of alignment with trump's claim that there should be at least some type of immunity or protection for a former president from criminal charges. i have a vivid memory of sitting there, and having each of those justices, justice kavanaugh, chief justice john roberts, and judge gorsuch, going one by one and making clear that they were not going to come out in this case the way that jack smith wants them to come out. at that point, it's a numbers game that i do not think looks good. >> mark, were you as surprised as i was to hear the line of questioning that came out of some of the more conservative justices, like brett kavanaugh and judge gorsuch and samuel alito? >> i was. the sense that i got from those justices was that to them, to their minds, the real threat to democracy was not trump's effort on january 6th, to overturn a free and fair pres
. >> i thought it had to be a dispiriting day for special counsel, jack smith. you saw, one after another, the members of the conservative majority on the court basically signal discomfort with his position and some degree of alignment with trump's claim that there should be at least some type of immunity or protection for a former president from criminal charges. i have a vivid memory of sitting there, and having each of those justices, justice kavanaugh, chief justice john roberts, and...
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the legitimacy of the appointment of jack smith. that is not even before the court. and thomas asked about that. he remain it is most mysterious on the court today. we don't know what he thought. >> i think his jenny was showing. when you work for a president, you know these are just guys and girls and these particular guys consume all of this. and what was clear today, they will direct quote segments from all of these programs. alito gives speeches in front of conservatives and i'm sure conservatives in the audience who don't watch our programs are like what is he talking about. they are bound to trump in their feelings of being persecuted. they found common cause with the feeling of persecution. what is amazing to me as a nonlawyer is a federal judge carter out in california was like the further we get, the murmur key it gets but in the immediate aftermath, trump clearly committed the crimes and federal judges said more likely than not he committed felonies. him and that eastman guy. the further we get, the the more the people of the highest levels, the court held.
the legitimacy of the appointment of jack smith. that is not even before the court. and thomas asked about that. he remain it is most mysterious on the court today. we don't know what he thought. >> i think his jenny was showing. when you work for a president, you know these are just guys and girls and these particular guys consume all of this. and what was clear today, they will direct quote segments from all of these programs. alito gives speeches in front of conservatives and i'm sure...
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but, they used a grand jury, jack smith did to get that information. she said that is why we need a trial. a trial would be the first solution but your solution is the second best one, which would allow the evidence to get before the american people. >> mike pence, take the stand. tell us what happened. all of the, bill barr, take the stand. eric hirschman, lawyer in the white house, take the stand. it is at least a way, it is not a full trial but it is a hearing and that is a way at least to get some of the evidence before the public. >> andrew, do you agree with me that all nine justices, there wasn't a justice who said that a solution is an improper one? >> exactly. >> so, neil, there remains, though, when i listen to judge amy coney barrett, it also, there is also this other question, which is a certain amount of this is performative. you don't get the feeling that samuel alito is really looking for an answer that can change what he was thinking when he walked in there today. i don't mean to pick on him, it can happen with anyone of the justices at
but, they used a grand jury, jack smith did to get that information. she said that is why we need a trial. a trial would be the first solution but your solution is the second best one, which would allow the evidence to get before the american people. >> mike pence, take the stand. tell us what happened. all of the, bill barr, take the stand. eric hirschman, lawyer in the white house, take the stand. it is at least a way, it is not a full trial but it is a hearing and that is a way at...
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the prosecutor jack smith and justice department was grilled for nearly twice that amount of time. but almost immediately at the start of proceedings, under questioning, we got confirmation that the appeals court hypothetical, that crazy hypothetical about trump being able to assassinate political enemies and never be charged, we got confirmation at the start that that was not a fluke. president trump maintains and his lawyers maintain that he really is immune from prosecution, specifically for killing his political rivals. >> i'm going to give you a chance to say if you stay by it. if the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person and he orders the military or order someone to assassinate him, is that within his official acts from which he can get immunity? >> it would depend on the hypothetical, but we could see that could be an official act. >> it could and why? >> that could be an official act, really? you might officially as part of his duties want to kill his domestic political rival and if it is an official act, trump's lawyers say he is immune from prosecution. in
the prosecutor jack smith and justice department was grilled for nearly twice that amount of time. but almost immediately at the start of proceedings, under questioning, we got confirmation that the appeals court hypothetical, that crazy hypothetical about trump being able to assassinate political enemies and never be charged, we got confirmation at the start that that was not a fluke. president trump maintains and his lawyers maintain that he really is immune from prosecution, specifically for...
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. >> that kills both of jack smith's cases at once. >> that certainly kills -- aileen cannon is already killing the document case. she doesn't need extra help. >> professor, how do you think they're going to write it? it seemed like they were hinging a lot on this on official acts versus unofficial acts. even amy coney barrett tried to get them explain how fake electors is an official act. how are they going to write it? >> there for three distinctions that were salient. there was criminal versus civil because there is already broad civil immunity. then i think there was this official versus private acts, and then finally, there was sitting versus former president distinction. all of them, i think you're right, the one they're going to loft up is the official versus private. i think they'll do something similar to the case a couple years ago where they remanded it, and it seemed like a slam against trump, but ultimately, it gave him infinite amounts of time. i think it's going to be some kind of four-part test for how to distinguish between official and private acts. you didn't consider
. >> that kills both of jack smith's cases at once. >> that certainly kills -- aileen cannon is already killing the document case. she doesn't need extra help. >> professor, how do you think they're going to write it? it seemed like they were hinging a lot on this on official acts versus unofficial acts. even amy coney barrett tried to get them explain how fake electors is an official act. how are they going to write it? >> there for three distinctions that were salient....
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here was a little bit of the jack smith side punching back. take a listen. >> the reason why there have not been prior criminal prosecutions is that there were not crimes. what is important is that no public official has had the absolute criminal immunity that my friend thinks of. he's supposed to be faithful to the laws of the united states and the constitution of the united states and making a mistake is not what lands you in a criminal prosecution. >> joyce, your thoughts about what he was dealing with on that bench, because as i mentioned, the emphasis on everything but now i found suspicious. the number of justices who want to talk about history and we're writing for the future and not deal with what he says there. you're never getting prosecuted for a good faith mistake. you have to have criminal intent. this is black letter law. here you're not fdr dealing with a war. you've got 20 days or whatever left, you have a president-elect lawfully certified and you're trying to steal the thing. >> so appellate argument is very different from ar
here was a little bit of the jack smith side punching back. take a listen. >> the reason why there have not been prior criminal prosecutions is that there were not crimes. what is important is that no public official has had the absolute criminal immunity that my friend thinks of. he's supposed to be faithful to the laws of the united states and the constitution of the united states and making a mistake is not what lands you in a criminal prosecution. >> joyce, your thoughts about...
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congresswoman, what are people who were hoping to see all the evidence that jack smith has gathered -- you mentioned liz cheney. she talked about the people that jack smith was able to reach that you weren't because they defied congressional subpoenas. they weren't forthcoming. what is the prospect for the american people seeing that evidence before the election? >> it's hard to know. certainly, we will wait and see what the court does. it's possible they could lift the stay and make a decision that whatever immunity would possibly exist. in this case, there is no immunity. we do have state court actions. the indictment in arizona is interesting. obviously, the former president is an unindicted co-conspirator. we don't know why unindicted. potentially, they are waiting for the immunity ruling as well. there's a seven-year statute of limitations for those crimes. he could be added. we may get quick action there. the state courts seem to move faster than the federal courts. the distressing thing -- those of us -- all the lawyers are considered officers of the court. we are trained to be
congresswoman, what are people who were hoping to see all the evidence that jack smith has gathered -- you mentioned liz cheney. she talked about the people that jack smith was able to reach that you weren't because they defied congressional subpoenas. they weren't forthcoming. what is the prospect for the american people seeing that evidence before the election? >> it's hard to know. certainly, we will wait and see what the court does. it's possible they could lift the stay and make a...
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smith's efforts to hold trump accountable for january 6th. i saw the five conservative justices repeatedly minimizing what occurred on january 6th right across the street from me, suggesting that the real threat here was the biden administration setting this terrible example of prosecuting a former president. brett kavanaugh, sam alito and clarence thomas think it's unconstitutional. brett kavanaugh sounded outraged at its very existence, and that left the four women justices to clean up the mess with the great hypothetical you just played, some really searching questions from justice barrett about the line that trump's attorney was trying to draw here, but they are just four votes and at the end of the day, i think there are clearly at least five votes to prevent this trial from moving forward anytime soon. >> so, carol, part of the arguments today center on what is an official act, what is a not official act, what is core to the presidency, and what is not core to the presidency. in your coverage of january 6th, the lead up to january 6th a
smith's efforts to hold trump accountable for january 6th. i saw the five conservative justices repeatedly minimizing what occurred on january 6th right across the street from me, suggesting that the real threat here was the biden administration setting this terrible example of prosecuting a former president. brett kavanaugh, sam alito and clarence thomas think it's unconstitutional. brett kavanaugh sounded outraged at its very existence, and that left the four women justices to clean up the...
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so what of course obviously jack smith and special counsel is hoping for, a majority of the court will just say, no, absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for a former president and clearly jack smith would say this is private acts. >> everybody stay with us. the arguments are just getting underway. let's listen in to the u.s. supreme court. >> without presidential immunity from criminal prosecution, there can be no presidency as we know it. for 234 years of american history, no president was ever prosecuted for his official acts. the framers of our constitution viewed an energetic executive as essential to securing liberty. if a president can be charged, put on trial, and imprisoned for his most controversial decisions as soon as he leaves office, that looming threat will distort the president's decision-making precisely when bold and fearless action is most needed. every current president will face de facto blackmail and extortion by his political rivals, while he is still in office. the implications of the court's decision here extend far beyond the facts of this case. could p
so what of course obviously jack smith and special counsel is hoping for, a majority of the court will just say, no, absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for a former president and clearly jack smith would say this is private acts. >> everybody stay with us. the arguments are just getting underway. let's listen in to the u.s. supreme court. >> without presidential immunity from criminal prosecution, there can be no presidency as we know it. for 234 years of american history,...
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for the specifics, jack smith's operation has been clear. the stuff that happened on january 6th is inherently not about the acts of the presidency because trump had lost. he'd lost the election. therefore, it is not a presidential act, and, therefore, he should not get immunity for it. whether the justices see it that way is a whole other matter. look, i think this is pretty evident that what is happening here is trump's team wants to just muck things up. i don't think that there is anything more to it. they want to delay it. way that i want to get this out from the election. ideally, they want to see trump win and dispense with the matter. i think the "journal's" editorial, there is nothing debatable or objectionable about it. of course, presidents should have some level of immunity for acts they take in office. the question is whether it should be blanket immunity. i think on that front, the vast majority of the legal profession is on one side, saying, no, there should not be blanket immu immunity. >> muck things sup a technical, legal te
for the specifics, jack smith's operation has been clear. the stuff that happened on january 6th is inherently not about the acts of the presidency because trump had lost. he'd lost the election. therefore, it is not a presidential act, and, therefore, he should not get immunity for it. whether the justices see it that way is a whole other matter. look, i think this is pretty evident that what is happening here is trump's team wants to just muck things up. i don't think that there is anything...
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special counsel jack smith's office contends that presidents are not above the law and that even if they are eligible for immunity for some official acts, trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election was not an official presidential act. now, trump's immunity claim has already been rejected by two lower courts, and the special counsel argues that justices should send the case back to u.s. district judge tanya chutkan to begin the trial. the decision and timing of the supreme court's ruling will be key as to whether the case goes to trial at all or is delayed past the presidential election. with all that said, a lot to unpack. joining us now nbc justice and legal affairs analyst anthony coley. he was the top spokesman at the department of justice under attorney general merrick garland. and a disclaimer he insists that i read, he's not an actual lawyer. set expectations at the right level. >> right. >> there's a lot to unpack today. crazy day. let's start with the immunity argument, because i think you and i both agree -- obviously everything's huge, but this one is monumental. what do yo
special counsel jack smith's office contends that presidents are not above the law and that even if they are eligible for immunity for some official acts, trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election was not an official presidential act. now, trump's immunity claim has already been rejected by two lower courts, and the special counsel argues that justices should send the case back to u.s. district judge tanya chutkan to begin the trial. the decision and timing of the supreme court's ruling...
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smith in the federal january 6 election case against him joining me now with the latest is nbc news correspondent, vaughn hillyard. i know you have been reading into this and going through the indictment, so just the first of all, just set up what happened here in terms of the investigation, whose office did the investigation, how long it took and what attorney general mays announced today. >> i think it is important for folks that may be saying why did this investigation take so long, why is it the year 2024 for this indictment finally came down? will folks should also understand that in the state of arizona, it was a republican, mark brnovich was his name who was the attorney general the two years following the 2020 election. kris mayes didn't come into her position until winning that crucial november election in 2022 point that is what led to this investigation. over the course of this year, this was a sprawling investigation that led to not only the 11 alternate electors, the 11 fake electors being indicted but also the seven under individuals here if we just look at the 11 indi
smith in the federal january 6 election case against him joining me now with the latest is nbc news correspondent, vaughn hillyard. i know you have been reading into this and going through the indictment, so just the first of all, just set up what happened here in terms of the investigation, whose office did the investigation, how long it took and what attorney general mays announced today. >> i think it is important for folks that may be saying why did this investigation take so long,...
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i think the reason jack smith is waiting in the d.c. case is because he wants to bang out the trump case, resolve it, then he will go after the unindicted co-conspirators but let me add this to complicate matters even more. just because you are an unindicted co-conspirator does not mean you will necessarily be indicted. like i say, lots of moving pieces. >> okay, not necessarily, but he is now facing this on top of 88 criminal charges. if you are on donald trump's big legal team -- he has some in new york tomorrow, he has some in d.c., what are you telling them tonight? >> please don't fire me but look -- >> why would he? he needs the help more than ever. >> but it's a good way to get a delay. one thing that someone does for a lastgasp effort to get a delay is fire their counsel, which they are permitted to do than say i've got my new council and i need that person to get up to speed. judge merchan will not permit it. he will say you have to keep counsel there. it will be fine but let me get back to this big diagram and try to simplify
i think the reason jack smith is waiting in the d.c. case is because he wants to bang out the trump case, resolve it, then he will go after the unindicted co-conspirators but let me add this to complicate matters even more. just because you are an unindicted co-conspirator does not mean you will necessarily be indicted. like i say, lots of moving pieces. >> okay, not necessarily, but he is now facing this on top of 88 criminal charges. if you are on donald trump's big legal team -- he has...
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it was added onto by jack smith which showed this scheme was happening from the campaign down to the states. not bubbling up from a grass roots level. that is why you reseeing fake electors as the arizona level and people at the campaign level and into the white house. that's the second point. i was struck by on page 44 of this indictment. eric hirschman seems to once again be very much an important witness in the case and he is on a text message where basically, he and a colleague are talking about how they are not going to sign off on this because he views this as a quote in the indictment, certifying illegal votes. certifying illegal votes is what he wrote. and he said someone else is going to have to sign it and he says rudy, boris, and jenna. and those names are actually the three of the people charged. >> tim, did you learn anything in this indictment? that you hadn't already had a pretty clear sense of in the january 6th investigation? >> a few details but not the big picture. the big picture has been clear for a while. as andrew said, this was a top down intentional part of t
it was added onto by jack smith which showed this scheme was happening from the campaign down to the states. not bubbling up from a grass roots level. that is why you reseeing fake electors as the arizona level and people at the campaign level and into the white house. that's the second point. i was struck by on page 44 of this indictment. eric hirschman seems to once again be very much an important witness in the case and he is on a text message where basically, he and a colleague are talking...
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>> i think the reason jack smith is waiting in the d.c. case is because he wants to bang out the trump case, resolve it. then he'll go after the unindicted co-conspirators, but just because you're an an unindicted co-conspirator doesn't necessarily mean you'll be indicts, a lot of moving pieces. >> not necessarily, but he's now facing this on top of 88 criminal charges. if you were on donald trump's big legal team, some in new york tomorrow, some in d.c., what are you telling him tonight? >> please don't fire me, but in addition to that, look, this does -- >> why would he? he needs them now more than ever. >> no. but it's a good way to get a delay. >> explain that. >> one thing someone does for a last gasp effort to get a delay is fire their counsel which they're permitted to do and say i've got my new counsel and i need that person to get up to speed. judge merchan will not permit it and say, you have two counsel there, it will be fine. this big diagram, two cohorts indicted people. the 11 folks in arizona who are unlike the trump loyalis
>> i think the reason jack smith is waiting in the d.c. case is because he wants to bang out the trump case, resolve it. then he'll go after the unindicted co-conspirators, but just because you're an an unindicted co-conspirator doesn't necessarily mean you'll be indicts, a lot of moving pieces. >> not necessarily, but he's now facing this on top of 88 criminal charges. if you were on donald trump's big legal team, some in new york tomorrow, some in d.c., what are you telling him...
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smith in the federal january 6th election case against him. joining me now is -- von hillier. i know you have been reading into this and going through the indictment. first of all, set up what happened here in terms of the investigation, whose office did the investigation, how long it took and what attorney general mays announced today. >> it is important for folks that may be saying, why did this investigation takes a long, why is it the year 2024 before the indictment came down. folks should understand in the state of arizona, it was a republican -- who was the attorney general in the two years following the 2020 election. chris mays did not come into the position until winning the crucial november election in 2022. that is what led to the investigation. over the course of the year, this was a sprawling investigation that led to not only the 11 fake electors being indicted, but also the seven other individual year. if we look at the 11 individuals, i think number one, when you look from an arizona perspective, there was not much effort to hi
smith in the federal january 6th election case against him. joining me now is -- von hillier. i know you have been reading into this and going through the indictment. first of all, set up what happened here in terms of the investigation, whose office did the investigation, how long it took and what attorney general mays announced today. >> it is important for folks that may be saying, why did this investigation takes a long, why is it the year 2024 before the indictment came down. folks...
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Apr 24, 2024
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they refused jack smith's request to fast track this case in december before a single republican primary vote had been cast. sending it instead to the d.c. circuit court. the court also could have just affirmed the decision by the d.c. circuit court which found that a president surprise surprise does not, in fact, have absolute immunity from prosecution. after trump's lawyers made that argument that they could reprise tomorrow. >> could a president who ordered seal team 6 to assassinate a political rival who was not impeached, would he be subject to criminal prosecution? >> if he were impeached and convicted first. >> so your answer is no? >> my answer is qualified yes. >> instead, this 6-3 right wipg majority court, three of whom nominated by donald trump and another whose wife actively encouraged trump's efforts to overturn the election and attended the rally that proceeded the attack on the capitol, they will decide whether or not trump is above the law, even he is already the presumptive republican presidential nominee. friends of the show, legal experts, melissa murray and andrew we
they refused jack smith's request to fast track this case in december before a single republican primary vote had been cast. sending it instead to the d.c. circuit court. the court also could have just affirmed the decision by the d.c. circuit court which found that a president surprise surprise does not, in fact, have absolute immunity from prosecution. after trump's lawyers made that argument that they could reprise tomorrow. >> could a president who ordered seal team 6 to assassinate a...
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Apr 24, 2024
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tomorrow we have the supreme court hearing on presidential immunity and whether jack smith might put donald trump on trial by the election as well. we have a lot to get to. stay with me. i'll be right back. ♪ limu emu ♪ ♪ and doug ♪ hello, ghostbusters. it's doug... ... of doug and limu. we help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. anyway, we got a bit of a situation here. ♪♪ uh-huh. uh-huh. ♪♪ [ metal groans] sure, i can hold. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty liberty liberty liberty ♪ ghostbusters: frozen empire. in theaters now. my name is douglas. i'm a writer/director and i'm still working. in the kind of work that i do, you are surrounded by people who are all younger than you. i had to get help somewhere along the line to stay competitive. i discovered prevagen. i started taking it and after a period of time, my memory improved. it was a game-changer for me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. ♪ ♪ it was a game-changer for me. [ gasps ] way day's coming! wayfair's biggest sale of the year is bac
tomorrow we have the supreme court hearing on presidential immunity and whether jack smith might put donald trump on trial by the election as well. we have a lot to get to. stay with me. i'll be right back. ♪ limu emu ♪ ♪ and doug ♪ hello, ghostbusters. it's doug... ... of doug and limu. we help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. anyway, we got a bit of a situation here. ♪♪ uh-huh. uh-huh. ♪♪ [ metal groans] sure, i can hold. only pay for...
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Apr 24, 2024
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jack smith sought to fast track this case. maybe not having a trial, maybe not airing the evidence in front of the american people before an election to decide, you guessed it, who will be our president. make no mistake. whether or not trump prevails this particular appeal does nothing to change a fact that the nation's highest court has already done the disgraced ex-president a solid in terms of the timeline, the schedule. big favor. they have gift wrapped and otherwise unavailable delay for him. they've shown the country, the public, the 60% of americans who don't think much of them anymore. they've shown an ability to move quickly when he asked them to. so here we go. foundational principle under consideration, the future of our democracy at stake. it's where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. u.s. special correspondent for bbc studios katty kay is here. joining us rnc spam, host of the bulwark podcast tim miller is here. back with me at the table former official at the department of justice, m
jack smith sought to fast track this case. maybe not having a trial, maybe not airing the evidence in front of the american people before an election to decide, you guessed it, who will be our president. make no mistake. whether or not trump prevails this particular appeal does nothing to change a fact that the nation's highest court has already done the disgraced ex-president a solid in terms of the timeline, the schedule. big favor. they have gift wrapped and otherwise unavailable delay for...
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Apr 24, 2024
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if that's the thinking of the supreme court and it's remanded, jack smith is arguing that judge chutkan could still go to trial because there was so much private conduct involved here for a private aim using private actors, including private attorneys that even if there were some official acts involved, proper evidentiary instructions and jury instructions could take care of that and that anything else could be appealed thereafter. so we will see if the court asks questions about that tomorrow. >> are there specific questions that you're going to be watching for? >> certainly the question percentage was whether and to what extent there's immunity for official acts. they're going to hone in on official acts, there's no immunity for conduct whatsoever, even if it's in the scope of official acts and i think we'll see the second piece. what if there is? if there is, is anything mr. trump is charged with an official act? is it not? what do we do if some of it? >> mary mccord, thank you very much. and we are waiting on speaker mike johnson who will make an experience at columbia university. h
if that's the thinking of the supreme court and it's remanded, jack smith is arguing that judge chutkan could still go to trial because there was so much private conduct involved here for a private aim using private actors, including private attorneys that even if there were some official acts involved, proper evidentiary instructions and jury instructions could take care of that and that anything else could be appealed thereafter. so we will see if the court asks questions about that tomorrow....
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Apr 24, 2024
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>> jack smith in his argument is preparing for that possibility. first he says, court, there's no absolute immunity, that's the initial argument. even if you find there's some immunity, some smaller sub sect, there are acts he took here not as president trump but as candidate trump, and you have this other set of actions, regardless of what you find about immunity, these actions are not covered. when he's call asking trying to find votes, he's not doing that because he's worried about the election system as a president, he's not worried about the election system and preserving its quality, he's doing that because he wants to be a president for a second term. he's doing that because he's furthering his personal interests of the trump campaign. i think the court here, if this was any other court, this would be a losing argument. what does a court do and when does it do it. delay is a big point. >> let me remind you guys an exchange from the d.c. court of appeals in january that a lot of people remember. here it is. >> could a president who ordered se
>> jack smith in his argument is preparing for that possibility. first he says, court, there's no absolute immunity, that's the initial argument. even if you find there's some immunity, some smaller sub sect, there are acts he took here not as president trump but as candidate trump, and you have this other set of actions, regardless of what you find about immunity, these actions are not covered. when he's call asking trying to find votes, he's not doing that because he's worried about the...
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. >> and jack smith and in his brief gave that offering that there could be a way to parse this rather than throw everything out. paul, lisa, kudos to you for everything that you are doing. thank you so much. >>> and anti-war protests on college campuses today reminding many of the unrest we saw at the height of the vietnam war in 1968. we know lbj decided not to even run for a full term after that. next i'll speak with someone who was there, an incredible historian all of her firsthand knowledge of the 60s. that is coming up next. that is coming up next zyrtec allergy relief works fast and lasts a full 24 hours so dave can be the... deliverer of dance. ok, dave! let's be more than our allergies. zeize the day with zyrtec. weeds... they have you surrounded. take your lawn back! with scotts turf builder triple action! it gets three jobs done at once - kills weeds. prevents crabgrass. and keeps it growing strong. download the my lawn app today for lawn care tips and customized plans. feed your lawn. feed it. new herbal essences sulfate free. packed with pure aloe and camellia flower oil
. >> and jack smith and in his brief gave that offering that there could be a way to parse this rather than throw everything out. paul, lisa, kudos to you for everything that you are doing. thank you so much. >>> and anti-war protests on college campuses today reminding many of the unrest we saw at the height of the vietnam war in 1968. we know lbj decided not to even run for a full term after that. next i'll speak with someone who was there, an incredible historian all of her...
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Apr 23, 2024
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this information released after jack smith fought to keep some information redacted citing safety concerns. itsther latest in a growing list of questionable rulings by judge cannon who has yet to set the trial date for this case. that does it for me. be sure to catch the katie phang show on saturdays at noon right here on msnbc. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. i suffer with psoriatic arthritis and psoriasis. i was on a journey for a really long time to find some relief. cosentyx works for me. cosentyx helps real people get real relief from the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis or psoriasis. serious allergic reactions, severe skin reactions that look like eczema, and an increased risk
this information released after jack smith fought to keep some information redacted citing safety concerns. itsther latest in a growing list of questionable rulings by judge cannon who has yet to set the trial date for this case. that does it for me. be sure to catch the katie phang show on saturdays at noon right here on msnbc. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new...
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Apr 23, 2024
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smith's january 6th election interference case. and it comes as the court is suffering some of its lowest public support with majorities now seeing it as partisan and many say unethical. political oversight on conflicts of interest. all of that as a backdrop. this is not the first time the high court has been caught in the middle of a case that is decide a presidential election. in 2000, the court effectively decided that george w. bush was elected by ending a recount in florida that would have given al gore 537 more votes. gore conceded in a gracious speech that is widely praised to this day. the court's decision was accepted by the public. here with me now is retired supreme court associate justice stephen breyer. of course, participated in that case, and his new book is "reading the constitution, why i chose pragmatism, not textualism." congratulations on a fascinating book. >> thank you. >> i want to go through that with you and through some of the precedents you were involved in. so in discussing that book, and cases like pres
smith's january 6th election interference case. and it comes as the court is suffering some of its lowest public support with majorities now seeing it as partisan and many say unethical. political oversight on conflicts of interest. all of that as a backdrop. this is not the first time the high court has been caught in the middle of a case that is decide a presidential election. in 2000, the court effectively decided that george w. bush was elected by ending a recount in florida that would have...
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Apr 22, 2024
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and keep in mind jack smith went to the supreme court months ago and said take this up now, don't wait for the appellate court. it's coming to you anyway. take it up now. and they go no, no, no, no, go along there and take it to the appellate court first and then it will come to us in due time. so she's absolutely right. and it will be another scandal for the supreme court. and frankly chief justice roberts needs to look in the mirror and decide does he really want to be the chief justice that's remembered for the complete disintegration of anybody's faith in the united states supreme court in this country? because it's already hanging on by a thread after all of the ethics scandals. and now if they give trump this out i think it will go even further, the public's opinion of them. >> the supreme court has an historic low approval rating in the eyes of the american people. i think it just plunged farther faster than any institution in civic life other than congress, which is kind of amazing. farther than the media writ large. and no one has said the word ginni thomas. but ginni thomas w
and keep in mind jack smith went to the supreme court months ago and said take this up now, don't wait for the appellate court. it's coming to you anyway. take it up now. and they go no, no, no, no, go along there and take it to the appellate court first and then it will come to us in due time. so she's absolutely right. and it will be another scandal for the supreme court. and frankly chief justice roberts needs to look in the mirror and decide does he really want to be the chief justice...
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Apr 22, 2024
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i think the other thing congresswoman cheney has argued is prosecutors and the doj and jack smith was able to get, they've spoken to people like mike pence and mark meadows and she argues the public should be able to hear that information and i would like to too. thank you for joining us. >>> still ahead, we'll go live to cnbc for an early look at what's driving the day on wall street. >>> plus, the house passes a bill which could force the sale of tiktok. we'll break this down and the expected legal battle ahead. "way too early" is coming right back. "way too early" is coming right back times may change, but somethings remain timeless. i've been using dove beauty bar more than 25 years. dove is 1/4 moisturizing cream. ♪♪ i feel silky smooth. ♪♪ ♪ upbeat music ♪ asthma. it can make you miss out on those epic hikes with friends. step back out there, with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra helps prevent asthma attacks. most patients did not have an attack in the first year. fasenra is proven to help you b
i think the other thing congresswoman cheney has argued is prosecutors and the doj and jack smith was able to get, they've spoken to people like mike pence and mark meadows and she argues the public should be able to hear that information and i would like to too. thank you for joining us. >>> still ahead, we'll go live to cnbc for an early look at what's driving the day on wall street. >>> plus, the house passes a bill which could force the sale of tiktok. we'll break this...
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Apr 21, 2024
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special counsel, jack smith, disagrees. in a 66 page filing, smith blasted the argument, sing "the radical suggestion that would free the president from virtually all criminal law, even crimes such as bribery, murder, treason, and sedition is unfounded." let's bring in our nb's -- msnbc legal analyst and molly is still with us. carol, it's taken an exceptionally long time to get to this moment. i think, troublingly long. what are the big things you're watching for, and were you at all concerned about how slow this hearing was? >> well, to answer your first question, what we are going to be looking for, here, is how the court ends up dividing, if they divide, on certain issues. fundamentally, there are two big issues the supreme court has agreed to to get to a resolution on the first is whether the president, in the events leading up to january 6th, was really acting in presidential capacity, whether he was exercising presidential duties or whether the even enter the outer perimeter of his wrath -- of his presidential duties
special counsel, jack smith, disagrees. in a 66 page filing, smith blasted the argument, sing "the radical suggestion that would free the president from virtually all criminal law, even crimes such as bribery, murder, treason, and sedition is unfounded." let's bring in our nb's -- msnbc legal analyst and molly is still with us. carol, it's taken an exceptionally long time to get to this moment. i think, troublingly long. what are the big things you're watching for, and were you at all...
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smith's case mean that it could bump up against the election. is there some date by which the trial couldn't be finished, it becomes too politicized? >> i think that is up to judge. she is the one i would have to make the decision. the department of justice has internal guidelines on what they can take over investigative steps or commence a prosecution in time of the election but those are guidelines and more importantly, they don't apply to judges themselves. does she have enough time for pretrial proceedings to have this trial in a way that does not interfere with the former presidents speech rights or other rights as a candidate. i will say that courts thus far have not been very amenable to the argument. means that we have to be able to stay out of court. was not at all sympathetic to that argument when one of the lawyers argued this case should not go forward now at all because it interfered with his ability to campaign. times it should be on the trail. >> when you initially wrote about the manhattan case, alvin bragg's indictment last year
smith's case mean that it could bump up against the election. is there some date by which the trial couldn't be finished, it becomes too politicized? >> i think that is up to judge. she is the one i would have to make the decision. the department of justice has internal guidelines on what they can take over investigative steps or commence a prosecution in time of the election but those are guidelines and more importantly, they don't apply to judges themselves. does she have enough time...
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Apr 21, 2024
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the problem is timing and as we know, the court could have taken this case in december when jack smith asked them to take the case. they could have truly expedited hearing the case. they didn't. they are hearing this thursday which is the very last day of the term, the supreme court term. the last day they could hear it and they could sit on a decision when it is clear there should no longer be a stay of the district court proceedings. i think there is no way that someone is going to find that he is immune from this case. the problem is they continue this day and they don't issue a decision until june which could very well happen. sort of the end of this year's term and then you really may not ever have a criminal case on the d.c. federal charges before the election. so you may end up with a flowery decision about help presidents are not above the law. but the fact, the supreme court would have rendered donald trump immune from this criminal case. >> okay. >> andrew, i did not know you could just say anything. makeup claims like this is what donald trump on hit his site. if the preside
the problem is timing and as we know, the court could have taken this case in december when jack smith asked them to take the case. they could have truly expedited hearing the case. they didn't. they are hearing this thursday which is the very last day of the term, the supreme court term. the last day they could hear it and they could sit on a decision when it is clear there should no longer be a stay of the district court proceedings. i think there is no way that someone is going to find that...
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Apr 20, 2024
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smith. they're coming after me because they want to come after you and take away your rights and choice of president. it is you that are after. he has been successful and that messaging. it is an important part of his campaign. >> opening statements are set for monday, joyce. the government goes first. what will you be watching for? >> reporter: opening statements are the party's first opportunity to share their theory of the case. you are not permitted to argue the evidence but you can predict what it will look like. especially from prosecutors, we will get a good layout of what they think their case will look like. we have some expectation of that from the indictment. this will fill in some of the details. on donald trump's side, it is not clear what we will hear. will we hear a layout of the defense gimmick will they say that donald trump was not having affairs with these women? something he has adjusted at before. most importantly, will his lawyers promised, as donald trump has, that he
smith. they're coming after me because they want to come after you and take away your rights and choice of president. it is you that are after. he has been successful and that messaging. it is an important part of his campaign. >> opening statements are set for monday, joyce. the government goes first. what will you be watching for? >> reporter: opening statements are the party's first opportunity to share their theory of the case. you are not permitted to argue the evidence but you...
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smith in a court of law in d.c. these things are not necessarily competing. they do complement one another. the real question will be, to what end and to what extent of the supreme court's decision in this case allows jack smith to tell the story to completion. >> it is a story that needs telling. as always, thank you for starting your morning with us. >>> next, congressman jim clyburn is at the table to talk about capitol hill. >> i spoke about speaker mike johnson on the yesterday and the cbd -- msnbc daily newsletter. subscribe now by scanning the qr code on your screen with your smart phone camera. you can sign up and start reading. you are watching "the weekend." that's a problem. stay fresh out there with all—new wraps from subway. oh... stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! we're here with chris counahan of our local leaffilter. so chris, tell us how leaffilter is different from every other gutter protection on
smith in a court of law in d.c. these things are not necessarily competing. they do complement one another. the real question will be, to what end and to what extent of the supreme court's decision in this case allows jack smith to tell the story to completion. >> it is a story that needs telling. as always, thank you for starting your morning with us. >>> next, congressman jim clyburn is at the table to talk about capitol hill. >> i spoke about speaker mike johnson on the...
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he's impressed by the jack smith in time of year keep him as he said if what is true in the case is to donald trump is, quote, toes. yet here he is saying he's got my vote. >> i am shocked. we shouldn't be shocked. it's like the least surprising ever. of course, bill barr supports trump. i really thought given all of the cabinet that has walked away from him, which is a stork in its own right, i really in thought that bill barr would actually not support him this time. i thought we could count on i that. and its poor willie had to live through all my gestations of outrage. watching that last clip of all of these cowards that eventually went his way. i will never understand this. i will never understand this. i will never understand. it's not that great being an relevant. it's not. i will eanever understand how i is worth it to them. it's interesting when he contrast that with what is happening with mike johnson, who seems to have really taken to, taken hold on him that he is the speaker of the united states house of representatives. that meeting had with president biden, mitchi mcconne
he's impressed by the jack smith in time of year keep him as he said if what is true in the case is to donald trump is, quote, toes. yet here he is saying he's got my vote. >> i am shocked. we shouldn't be shocked. it's like the least surprising ever. of course, bill barr supports trump. i really thought given all of the cabinet that has walked away from him, which is a stork in its own right, i really in thought that bill barr would actually not support him this time. i thought we could...
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a lawyer who is represented donald trump himself before the doj and the jack smith high-profile cases and he's going to join me in just a moment. a little context, looking at both sides of the case. andrew weissmann will be here to rebut. but the d.a. bragg's case relied on a particular new york statute and the effort here, as i've menged to you before, but we're going to get into it, it-s to take a lower crime, a misdemeanor charge and make it a felony because, as the d.a. explained, there was more to it. >> less than two weeks before the presidential election, michael cohen wired $130,000 to stormy daniels's lawyer. that payment was to hide damaging information from the voting public. the scheme violated new york election law. >> election law, and possibly tax law, more than one law, which is basically why the d.a. is saying this becoming a cover-up felony rather than just a misdemeanor. and that means prosecutors will have to prove more than just the underlying business fraud. they'll have to prove that he intended to conceal another crime. that is what will make it the felony. and
a lawyer who is represented donald trump himself before the doj and the jack smith high-profile cases and he's going to join me in just a moment. a little context, looking at both sides of the case. andrew weissmann will be here to rebut. but the d.a. bragg's case relied on a particular new york statute and the effort here, as i've menged to you before, but we're going to get into it, it-s to take a lower crime, a misdemeanor charge and make it a felony because, as the d.a. explained, there was...
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so in this case, unlike georgia, unlike the jack smith cases, donald trump could frankly just cooperate with this case and not worry about its impact. instead, he's exploding his raw personality in the courtroom and outside of the courtroom. those five to 6% of the voters that actually will decide this election in six or seven state, those are the voter who is look at that and say this is why can't vote for this guy those are the the voter who is said i'm going to coalesce with democrats in 18 and 20 and 22. they are watching this and watching this behavior and they are being reminded why they are probably going to vote for joe biden in november. donald trum i said this every d. he's running on the facts of the mar-a-lago case and with the insurrectionists. he's not running on these facts. he's running from these facts. >> and he should. david is right. this is negatively impacting him, especially with independent americans. i talked to those folks that cover this. i see that couple percentage points in key swing states starting to move away from him, week by week. because he looks dimi
so in this case, unlike georgia, unlike the jack smith cases, donald trump could frankly just cooperate with this case and not worry about its impact. instead, he's exploding his raw personality in the courtroom and outside of the courtroom. those five to 6% of the voters that actually will decide this election in six or seven state, those are the voter who is look at that and say this is why can't vote for this guy those are the the voter who is said i'm going to coalesce with democrats in 18...
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Apr 18, 2024
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when he calls jack smith deranged, it doesn't even make the news. he's put so much toxicity, so much poison, so much hatred for the rule of law into the system. do you think it can be reversed? >> look, i have a colleague who is a former criminal defense attorney, and what he will tell you is if your client has neither the law on their side nor the facts on their side, the only strategy left to you is to attack the system itself, to attack the entire thing, and i think what we should expect from trump during this trial and any of the other trials that proceed is exactly that behavior, and you just alluded to how he did it to muller, and he did it to comey. when the facts of the law are not on one's side, you attack the system, and there is a very frightening precedent for that to your question about what the future holds. roughly 100 years ago, kind of almost to the week, another demagogue who had attempted to overthrow their government in 1923 in munich was put on trial for that attempted insurrection, and that demagogue used that trial to put the
when he calls jack smith deranged, it doesn't even make the news. he's put so much toxicity, so much poison, so much hatred for the rule of law into the system. do you think it can be reversed? >> look, i have a colleague who is a former criminal defense attorney, and what he will tell you is if your client has neither the law on their side nor the facts on their side, the only strategy left to you is to attack the system itself, to attack the entire thing, and i think what we should...
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he was impressed by jack smith's indictment. famously said, "if half of what is true in the indictment in the classified documents case is true, donald trump is, quote, toast." yet, here he is saying, "he's got my vote." >> i am shocked. it's like, we shouldn't be shocked. it's the least surprising thing ever, of course, bill barr comes around and supports trump. but i really thought, given all of the cabinet that has waled away from him, which is historic in its own right, i thought bill barr would not support him this time. poor willie had to live through my gestations of outrage in watching that last clip of all of these cowards that eventually went his way. i will never understand this. willie, it's not that great being relevant. >> yeah. >> i'll never understand how it is worth it to them. it is interesting when you contrast that with what is happening with mike johnson, who seems to have really taken to -- taken hold on him that he is the speaker of the united states house of representatives. you know, the meeting he had w
he was impressed by jack smith's indictment. famously said, "if half of what is true in the indictment in the classified documents case is true, donald trump is, quote, toast." yet, here he is saying, "he's got my vote." >> i am shocked. it's like, we shouldn't be shocked. it's the least surprising thing ever, of course, bill barr comes around and supports trump. but i really thought, given all of the cabinet that has waled away from him, which is historic in its own...