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pecker, yes. and the fact that pecker agreed to not publish a story about a playboy model's year-long alleged affair with a presidential candidate is only further proof this is not just about doing good business because pecker admitted such a story would have been, quote, "national enquirer" gold. the prosecution asked, at the time you entered into the agreement, you had zero intention of publication even if it would have helped the bottom line. you killed it because it would have hurt president trump. to which pecker answered, correct. and before the court wrapped for the week, the jury heard from two other witnesses, first was trump's longtime assistant and gate keeper, rhona graff, for a brief line of questioning authenticating both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels' contact information were in trump's computer. during cross-examination, she did admit to hearing conversations about daniels potentially being thought of as a contestant for celebrity apprentice. the other witness is much more obsc
pecker, yes. and the fact that pecker agreed to not publish a story about a playboy model's year-long alleged affair with a presidential candidate is only further proof this is not just about doing good business because pecker admitted such a story would have been, quote, "national enquirer" gold. the prosecution asked, at the time you entered into the agreement, you had zero intention of publication even if it would have helped the bottom line. you killed it because it would have...
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pecker saying how they worked with cohen. i'm going to show you the head lines that are for the most part false, a false allegation about trump competitor marco rubio. another one i can show you. let me look at the next one. infamously going after ted cruz. pecker testifying that story was knowingly manufactured right down to the doctored photo. trump's lawyers said this was a routine thing they did. however bad it looks, it was not a trump campaign thing, it's how they roll. they brought up arnold schwarzenegger, the deal i had with an nold, i would acquire them, buy them for a period of time. defense saying cohen didn't pay the enquirer back for the mcdougall story. that's trying to get the jurors to doubt whether this was a trump campaign thing or maybe just an enquirer thing. now mcdougall, who you see on the screen, i spoke to her lawyer back in 2019, keith davidson, who told us this. >> the affairs happened in 2006. michael cohen and i first contacted each other about the matter in 2011. so at a minimum they knew about
pecker saying how they worked with cohen. i'm going to show you the head lines that are for the most part false, a false allegation about trump competitor marco rubio. another one i can show you. let me look at the next one. infamously going after ted cruz. pecker testifying that story was knowingly manufactured right down to the doctored photo. trump's lawyers said this was a routine thing they did. however bad it looks, it was not a trump campaign thing, it's how they roll. they brought up...
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the answer from david pecker, quote, yes. he added, the actual purpose was to acquire lifetime rights so it was not published by any other news organization. pecker said it was standard to suppress stories to help a friend or to use as leverage with a celebrity, this was catch and kill in order to influence a presidential election. now with court adjourned for the weekend, it's all systems go as we head into next week with key testimony still ahead. this is where we start the hour with some of our most favorite reports and friends. two people inside the courtroom today, investigative reporter susan craig and former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman. lucky for us, andrew is still here as is lockland. sue, we start with you and your wonderful notebook. >> i have to say i think the most interesting part of today was the contination of that agreement that karen mcdougal had. donald trump's lawyers really tried to muddy the water on it. put some poison in the ear that karen mcdougal got someth
the answer from david pecker, quote, yes. he added, the actual purpose was to acquire lifetime rights so it was not published by any other news organization. pecker said it was standard to suppress stories to help a friend or to use as leverage with a celebrity, this was catch and kill in order to influence a presidential election. now with court adjourned for the weekend, it's all systems go as we head into next week with key testimony still ahead. this is where we start the hour with some of...
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pecker says yes. prosecutor, at the time you entered into the agreement you had zero intention of publication, even if it would have helped the bottom line. you killed it because it would have hurt president trump. pecker said yes. during the defense cross-examination, they're trying to get out of pecker that this was standard practice, buying these stories, catching and killing, was something they did all the time, and here's the prosecution trying to say no. this was special. were they able to achieve that. >> the defense's argument was you did this for all kinds of celebrities not just donald trump. on redirect, they're saying, was there anything like this relationship with donald trump. the answer, no. and i have to say as soon as david pecker's testimony concluded, celebrity everywhere must have been breathing a sigh of relief. a lot of them got hit with shrapnel. he name dropped a lot of people who probably would have preferred they weren't being named in this testimony. that was part of the exc
pecker says yes. prosecutor, at the time you entered into the agreement you had zero intention of publication, even if it would have helped the bottom line. you killed it because it would have hurt president trump. pecker said yes. during the defense cross-examination, they're trying to get out of pecker that this was standard practice, buying these stories, catching and killing, was something they did all the time, and here's the prosecution trying to say no. this was special. were they able...
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former "national enquirer" ceo david pecker. the defense spent hours trying to trip him up, catch him in contradictions, even introducing several instances where they say pecker's recollection of key events had changed over time. but the prosecution got the last word before lunch, getting pecker to admit that karen mcdougal's story would have been "national enquirer" gold, and his decision not to run it was purely to help donald trump. joining me now, nbc's vaughn hillyard outside the courthouse, former federal prosecutor paul butler is back with me. former assistant new york attorney general tristan snell is in studio, and jeremy soland, criminal defense attorney and former manhattan prosecutor. i'm going to start with you because you're a defense attorney and you're new to this table. it's a challenge, right, no matter how many times the defense keeps going back and back and back to david pecker, trying to show this wasn't about the campaign, which is what you did, this is standard operating procedure, they said that over and
former "national enquirer" ceo david pecker. the defense spent hours trying to trip him up, catch him in contradictions, even introducing several instances where they say pecker's recollection of key events had changed over time. but the prosecution got the last word before lunch, getting pecker to admit that karen mcdougal's story would have been "national enquirer" gold, and his decision not to run it was purely to help donald trump. joining me now, nbc's vaughn hillyard...
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pecker replied, yes. what's the significance there? >> so, chris, at the end of the trial, the judge is going to instruct the jury that the defense does not have to prove anything. it's the prosecution that has the heavy burden of proof, so mr. bove's shot is to plant reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. so his cross examination is trying to suggest to the jury that the prosecution's first witness is compromised, and thus, he's not credible. if he admits to wrongdoing, then he's going to lose money from this deal with trying to sell the "national enquirer" and that's also why mr. bove is focused on pecker's non-prosecution deal. he wants the jury to think that pecker is basically marching to alvin bragg's orders because pecker doesn't want to go to jail himself. so that's also why he told the jury that trump thanked -- that trump had thanked mr. pecker a few days before the inauguration even though mr. pecker earlier told the fbi that trump had not thanked him. so chris, for an effective cross exa
pecker replied, yes. what's the significance there? >> so, chris, at the end of the trial, the judge is going to instruct the jury that the defense does not have to prove anything. it's the prosecution that has the heavy burden of proof, so mr. bove's shot is to plant reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. so his cross examination is trying to suggest to the jury that the prosecution's first witness is compromised, and thus, he's not credible. if he admits to wrongdoing, then he's...
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let's talk about the role of david pecker. his credibility, once it's evaluated by the jurors -- he was the first witness and the feature witness of the trial so far -- is to take some of the burden to of michael cohen, who is obviously -- has damage connected to him being convicted and having admitted to perjury in the past and served time for that. >> right. that's baked into the calculation with michael cohen. he is a difficult witness. the government can't hug him too hard. he was donald trump's pick not prosecutor's pick. we are seeing this process that defense lawyer goes through in cross-examination. as vaughn said, they can't argue the evidence when they are cross-examining the witness. they are collecting coins that they hope will turn out to be valuable in closing argument when they can go back and argue to the jury. you can't really believe these people, they are not credible. >> the other thing, catherine, is this gag order hearing. judge merchan set it for next thursday. that's another week before dealing with the
let's talk about the role of david pecker. his credibility, once it's evaluated by the jurors -- he was the first witness and the feature witness of the trial so far -- is to take some of the burden to of michael cohen, who is obviously -- has damage connected to him being convicted and having admitted to perjury in the past and served time for that. >> right. that's baked into the calculation with michael cohen. he is a difficult witness. the government can't hug him too hard. he was...
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david pecker responded, that's right. of course, at the heart of the charges here, falsifying business records, is specifically the stormy daniels payment and the reimbursement of michael cohen by donald trump. and what david pecker is now saying is that he never intended to be a part of the stormy daniels story here in the first place. another aspect of this here is the fact that they are going through some of the prior meetings that david pecker had testified about. one of them that they're currently discussing now is david pecker on january of 2017 walking into a trump tower meeting, just weeks before donald trump was sworn in as president, a meeting that included the likes of reince priebus, sean spicer and james comey and they're getting into the gritty details of exactly what david pecker's role is a part of all of these meetings was and the extent to which donald trump was using these opportunities to ensure the silence of some of these key figures. jose? >> this is a continuing issue, this meeting and as well as o
david pecker responded, that's right. of course, at the heart of the charges here, falsifying business records, is specifically the stormy daniels payment and the reimbursement of michael cohen by donald trump. and what david pecker is now saying is that he never intended to be a part of the stormy daniels story here in the first place. another aspect of this here is the fact that they are going through some of the prior meetings that david pecker had testified about. one of them that they're...
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pecker answers yes. so clearly the idea, the challenged memory, challenge his credibility, do you think that's effective? >> it's minimally effective. i mean, they're suggesting that the prosecutor refreshed his memory and he's saying what the prosecutor wants, but remember, all these other celebrities you started to think maybe this is the david pecker show. with schwarzenegger, for example. all we know is what was in the tabloid media so we don't have any inside information, but it surely appeared that part of his motive was to protect his marriage because we saw publicly that when this all came out about his mistress and the child that his marriage broke out. well, i think they're going to be going there and suggesting with trump that there were alternate motives and the people are not able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was to influence the election. >> but that piece was something that the prosecution got out in front of yesterday in its questioning of david pecker and perhaps it will co
pecker answers yes. so clearly the idea, the challenged memory, challenge his credibility, do you think that's effective? >> it's minimally effective. i mean, they're suggesting that the prosecutor refreshed his memory and he's saying what the prosecutor wants, but remember, all these other celebrities you started to think maybe this is the david pecker show. with schwarzenegger, for example. all we know is what was in the tabloid media so we don't have any inside information, but it...
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pecker? >> mr. pecker was a solid first witness for the government on direct. but on cross, you sometimes learn a little bit more about a witness. the approach yesterday, as far as it got, was pretty soft. there wasn't any effort to, you know, go hard with this witness, and there may ultimately not be. this is a witness who says he considers the president a friend. trump has been remarkably restrained about talking about david pecker in public. it may be the cross-examination strategy will be to expose the limits of this witness' testimony. he tells a lot of the story about catch and kill to elect the president, but what he doesn't do, necessarily, is put trump in the room or know what was inside of trump's mind. so what we may see on cross-examination today is more of an effort to reign in the impact that his testimony has on the jury when it comes to donald trump and what he thought, knew, and did. >> we will be watching. former u.s. attorney joyce vance, thank you so much, as always. >>> susan glasser, getting back to your piece about "king donald's day at t
pecker? >> mr. pecker was a solid first witness for the government on direct. but on cross, you sometimes learn a little bit more about a witness. the approach yesterday, as far as it got, was pretty soft. there wasn't any effort to, you know, go hard with this witness, and there may ultimately not be. this is a witness who says he considers the president a friend. trump has been remarkably restrained about talking about david pecker in public. it may be the cross-examination strategy...
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>> oh, david pecker is the star witness for the people. and that may be a bold statement because so far he's been the only witness, but there are a few points why he must be. number one, they never would have called him first if he wasn't a solid witness. and number two, who isn't fascinated by this expose of how tabloid checkbook journalism works. i found it fascinating, and if you're fascinated as a juror, you're definitely listening. point three, he's part of a character i call a skoundological in that he's unabashed, unashamed of what he does. when you have witnesses like that, jurors kind of like them. they realize they are who they are, and they will listen to them and find them credible. as to that credibility, he has somewhat less credibility issues than michael cohen. so i think a very effective witness for the state and a really tough witness to cross for the defense. >> we don't use the word scoundrel enough in our coverage enough, danny cevallos. thank you for joining us and giving us new vocab words. >>> still ahead we'll look
>> oh, david pecker is the star witness for the people. and that may be a bold statement because so far he's been the only witness, but there are a few points why he must be. number one, they never would have called him first if he wasn't a solid witness. and number two, who isn't fascinated by this expose of how tabloid checkbook journalism works. i found it fascinating, and if you're fascinated as a juror, you're definitely listening. point three, he's part of a character i call a...
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one, this was not pecker's first rodeo. and two, pecker was always serving pecker. in other words, the primary purpose of this payment had nothing to do with benefitting donald trump's campaign. trump for pecker was good business as he had always been, but that doesn't to your point undermine the fact it's still an election law violation and david pecker knew it at the time. >> let me interject, though. isn't there a big difference between what david pecker used to do for donald trump for 17 years in terms of burying stories and get him happy and contribute daand all that stuff. and then once trump's campaign started in 2015 and 2017, that's when pecker started paying to shut people up for the first time. i mean prosecution said in their opening statement monday that that was only once trump had his presidential campaign going, that was the first time they ever paid anyone -- paid anyone for information about trump. it's a qualitatively different process at that point. >> i agree with that and the payments were abnormal even by enquirer standards. pecker testified a
one, this was not pecker's first rodeo. and two, pecker was always serving pecker. in other words, the primary purpose of this payment had nothing to do with benefitting donald trump's campaign. trump for pecker was good business as he had always been, but that doesn't to your point undermine the fact it's still an election law violation and david pecker knew it at the time. >> let me interject, though. isn't there a big difference between what david pecker used to do for donald trump for...
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i felt like david pecker encapsulates maga world. he keeps drifting and completely dupes his followers, but then they said there and they still pay homage to him. talk about whether or not you think that this trial, even so far, has been moving the needle in any way in terms of public sentiment when it comes to donald trump. >> yeah, it reminds me of a story i was told by a new yorker whose parents worked for donald trump's contractors. he wasn't always good about paying the contractors and i said, did he pay her parents? he said no, and this guy said i had to sue to get their money. i said okay, well, they got $.50 on the dollar back in the guy says you know what? they voted for trump. why if they believe he cheated them on their money? he said because, if you cheat says he will cheat everybody else on behalf of america, cheat the rest of the world on behalf of america. there is an interesting dynamic. it's a view, of him as somebody who is able to manipulate the system to work the system, bypass the system, whatever it is, that see
i felt like david pecker encapsulates maga world. he keeps drifting and completely dupes his followers, but then they said there and they still pay homage to him. talk about whether or not you think that this trial, even so far, has been moving the needle in any way in terms of public sentiment when it comes to donald trump. >> yeah, it reminds me of a story i was told by a new yorker whose parents worked for donald trump's contractors. he wasn't always good about paying the contractors...
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david pecker and trump. that the conversation during which and said trump said to him, yet again, how is karen? >> is the implication of "house or girl," and "how's karen?" is she holding to agreement? >> is she and is she happy with what you've offered. talked on direct about the fact that karen mcdougal thought this was a serious arrangement. she was trying to forward her career and wanted to do red carpet interviews, she wanted to write columns in some of the fitness magazines, so at one point, david pecker has her come to new york and they have a meeting where he hears her out about her various complaints about her contractual arrangement with american media. why? he wants to come in his words, keep her in the family. hold her close. >> it's sad and sordid. i did think, as i was reading our notes on the internal slack , because we don't have the transcript, that the john edwards case is like, the closest parallel we have particularly because that ended up in acquittal, because that was this question of w
david pecker and trump. that the conversation during which and said trump said to him, yet again, how is karen? >> is the implication of "house or girl," and "how's karen?" is she holding to agreement? >> is she and is she happy with what you've offered. talked on direct about the fact that karen mcdougal thought this was a serious arrangement. she was trying to forward her career and wanted to do red carpet interviews, she wanted to write columns in some of the...
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pecker said today he believed mr. trump or his company had paid daniels until cohen told him in december of 2016 that he was the one who paid her. prosecutors are seeking to prove mr. trump doctored internal business records to cover up that payment. pecker also testified trump was aghast when he saw stormy daniels on 60 minutes. >> was it hush money to stay silent? >> yes. >> reporter: pecker said trump called him. he said we have an agreement with stormy daniels that she cannot mention my name. trump later denied knowledge of the arrangement. on cross-examination, mr. trump's lawyers challenging credibility and business practice. at a campaign event earlier in the day mr. trump addressed the testimony of his longtime friend. >> david has been a nice guy. >> did you know about the payment to stormy daniels before the 2020 election? >> reporter: pecker also testified today about the payment his company did make the former playboy model karen mcdougal to keep her alleged affair with mr. trump quiet. pecker said he coor
pecker said today he believed mr. trump or his company had paid daniels until cohen told him in december of 2016 that he was the one who paid her. prosecutors are seeking to prove mr. trump doctored internal business records to cover up that payment. pecker also testified trump was aghast when he saw stormy daniels on 60 minutes. >> was it hush money to stay silent? >> yes. >> reporter: pecker said trump called him. he said we have an agreement with stormy daniels that she...
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and pecker said the campaign. and as to elaborate on that, because as to his personal opinion why did he think that, trump never spoke about ivanka, ever spoke about melania. he spoke about the campaign over and over again. and we heard an earful about the campaign, mostly through michael cohen constantly worrying about what the bosses thinking. when the transcript came, there are more than a dozen mentions of the boss. typically the boss will be very angry if you let karen mcdougal speak. the boss will be very angry if you release her from the nondisclosure deal. or this will please the boss. as to the general tenor of the things. and if trump's defense is that essentially he didn't know what was going on, he had more important things to worry about, having the jury hear the boss again and again and again, a dozen times, doesn't help his case. there was a fascinating moment when the jury saw after trump was elected, trump in the white house with david pecker , at trump's invitation. his dinner, trump put it. and
and pecker said the campaign. and as to elaborate on that, because as to his personal opinion why did he think that, trump never spoke about ivanka, ever spoke about melania. he spoke about the campaign over and over again. and we heard an earful about the campaign, mostly through michael cohen constantly worrying about what the bosses thinking. when the transcript came, there are more than a dozen mentions of the boss. typically the boss will be very angry if you let karen mcdougal speak. the...
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and, two, david pecker was always serving david pecker. in other words, the primary purpose of the payment had nothing to do with benefiting donald trump's campaign, trump the david pecker was good business as he had always been. that doesn't, to your point,, and the fact that it is still a federal election law violation. more importantly, as david pecker acknowledged in his direct, he knew it at the time. >> let me interject. isn't there a big difference between what david pecker used to do for donald trump for 17 years in terms of reading stories and trying to keep him happy and trying to get them to contribute and all of that stuff and then once trump campaign started in 2015 and 2016, that is when david pecker started paying to shut people up for the first time. persecution said in their opening statement on monday that that was only once trump had his presidential campaign going, that was the first time they ever paid anyone, paid anyone for information about trump. it is qualitatively process at that point. >> i agree with that. and,
and, two, david pecker was always serving david pecker. in other words, the primary purpose of the payment had nothing to do with benefiting donald trump's campaign, trump the david pecker was good business as he had always been. that doesn't, to your point,, and the fact that it is still a federal election law violation. more importantly, as david pecker acknowledged in his direct, he knew it at the time. >> let me interject. isn't there a big difference between what david pecker used to...
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>> a friend of pecker. you're on a no-fly list which means you're a protected species and there are no negative stories about you, and harvey weinstein inked a deal to produce something called radar tv, which never came to fruition, but it contained a lot of meetings between dylan howard and harvey weinstein, and requested came my way for damaging information on women that went on to recuse harvey weinstein of sexual assault. >> let's talk about these various meetings that pecker winds up in the white house. >> there were a couple really memorable meetings that david pecker talked about today. one involved a meeting right after donald trump is elected. and he gets a call from donald trump's secretary saying the president-elect would like to see you. david pecker comes over to trump tower and he's a bit overwhelmed by all the security. and jared kushner sees him and taps him on the shoulder and says come with me. he escorts david pecker up to trump's office. he walks in and he sees this incredible assembly o
>> a friend of pecker. you're on a no-fly list which means you're a protected species and there are no negative stories about you, and harvey weinstein inked a deal to produce something called radar tv, which never came to fruition, but it contained a lot of meetings between dylan howard and harvey weinstein, and requested came my way for damaging information on women that went on to recuse harvey weinstein of sexual assault. >> let's talk about these various meetings that pecker...
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the testimony of david pecker and much more with special coverage beginning at 8 p.m. eastern. rachel maddow and all of our primetime friends will be here for the coverage. i'll be back. now the beat with ari melber. hi, ari. >> we have a lot to get to. i will see you at 8. >> welcome to the beat. i'm ari melber. these are extraordinary times. we're watching history unfold at the supreme court which heard arguments about putting a president on trial. historic, unprecedented, all the words are true about this one. no other president has been indicted like this. trump's lawyers arguing he should be immune, basically totally immune because he was president during those efforts. that is a new relatively made up claim which they lost unanimously before the respected d.c. court of appeals. keep that in mind. that is the recent precedent and context for today, and you may remember that was the now infamous hearing where the trump lawyer openly claimed that as president trump could have a license to kill american opponents. that was the kind of chilling talk that many, many people acro
the testimony of david pecker and much more with special coverage beginning at 8 p.m. eastern. rachel maddow and all of our primetime friends will be here for the coverage. i'll be back. now the beat with ari melber. hi, ari. >> we have a lot to get to. i will see you at 8. >> welcome to the beat. i'm ari melber. these are extraordinary times. we're watching history unfold at the supreme court which heard arguments about putting a president on trial. historic, unprecedented, all the...
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pecker yes, it was. steinglass, then asked, were you aware that expenditures made by corporations for the purpose of influencing an election are unlawful? yes, pecker responded. then steinglass, the prosecutor, asked pecker why he bought mcdougal's story. pecker said, we purchased the story so it wouldn't be published by any other organization. we didn't want the story to embarrass mr. trump or embarrass or hurt the campaign. all of this laying the groundwork for what happened later in 2016 when pecker heard the story about trump and adult film star stormy daniels. keep in mind, pecker heard about it, one day after the "access hollywood" tape exploded the presidential campaign landscape, when it was released and made public. the trump campaign was in frantic damage control mode. pecker said that cohen in that time period asked him to pay for stormy daniels' story and even in that frantic damage control moment pecker refused, telling cohen, quote, i'm not purchasing the story. i'm not going to be involved
pecker yes, it was. steinglass, then asked, were you aware that expenditures made by corporations for the purpose of influencing an election are unlawful? yes, pecker responded. then steinglass, the prosecutor, asked pecker why he bought mcdougal's story. pecker said, we purchased the story so it wouldn't be published by any other organization. we didn't want the story to embarrass mr. trump or embarrass or hurt the campaign. all of this laying the groundwork for what happened later in 2016...
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david pecker says yes. steinglass says, did he ever say he was concerned about melania or how ivanka might feel. pecker says no, he invited me to the inauguration and he was going to get a cell phone number. that never transpired. pecker says he did not go to the inauguration and he asked his wife, and she said she didn't want to go either, so they didn't go. this is pecker saying this was -- part of the defense argument has been this is about protecting melania. he didn't want to embarrass me -- melania. and pecker said it was more about the campaign. >> it's on two levels. legally it's important. to have the campaign finance why it's a felony, this is so called john edwards defense, i did this for my family, not the campaign. the principal with the agreement with the other principal, david becker, donald trump. to have him say this was about the campaign, not his personal family goes directly to the legal theory. on the emotional side, just imagine you're a juror, you're in court, donald trump is sitting
david pecker says yes. steinglass says, did he ever say he was concerned about melania or how ivanka might feel. pecker says no, he invited me to the inauguration and he was going to get a cell phone number. that never transpired. pecker says he did not go to the inauguration and he asked his wife, and she said she didn't want to go either, so they didn't go. this is pecker saying this was -- part of the defense argument has been this is about protecting melania. he didn't want to embarrass me...
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Apr 25, 2024
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they've been so good, the pecker headlines. it's been amusing. but pecker back today. lisa rubin, the interesting point i think danny was building on, and your thoughts on what you expect today, you saw in the pecker testimony him really laying out plans for certain stories. even saying about a story that turned out not to be that -- not to really have legs was about the doorman and some baby, illegitimate child, and how he'd wait until after the election to put that story out if he could get more on it. showing really that they were framing everything they were doing around the election. >> he said it had to do with the election. it wasn't to protect trump personally, like they were saying. everything was timed for the election. >> exactly. lisa, with that in mind, what are you looking for today? >> i'm looking for more evidence, mika, of direct conversations between pecker and trump. he started in august 2015 at trump tower. he ended the other day starting to talk about a phone call they had in june 2016 when trump called him up to say michael cohen had informed him
they've been so good, the pecker headlines. it's been amusing. but pecker back today. lisa rubin, the interesting point i think danny was building on, and your thoughts on what you expect today, you saw in the pecker testimony him really laying out plans for certain stories. even saying about a story that turned out not to be that -- not to really have legs was about the doorman and some baby, illegitimate child, and how he'd wait until after the election to put that story out if he could get...
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Apr 25, 2024
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testimony will get under way with former national enquirer publisher david pecker, set to take the witness stand for a third day. prosecutors wrapped up on tuesday after pecker described an alleged catch and kill scheme that he participated in to cover up an alleged affair between trump and playboy model karen mcdougal. at the same time, judge juan merchan could also rule today on whether the former president violated his gag order. yesterday key witnesses in former trump attorney michael cohen stated he would stop posting or speaking publicly about the trial until after its conclusion. cohen is not under a gag order but has been the target of many of trump's recent rants. though donald trump gave an interview to the abc affiliate in philadelphia this week where he criticized michael cohen, and now one of trump's former attorneys is weighing in on those remarks. here's what trump said followed by new comments from his former lawyer, tim parlator. >> michael cohen is a convicted liar, and he's not no credibility whatsoever. he's a lawyer and you rely on your lawyers, but michael cohen was a
testimony will get under way with former national enquirer publisher david pecker, set to take the witness stand for a third day. prosecutors wrapped up on tuesday after pecker described an alleged catch and kill scheme that he participated in to cover up an alleged affair between trump and playboy model karen mcdougal. at the same time, judge juan merchan could also rule today on whether the former president violated his gag order. yesterday key witnesses in former trump attorney michael cohen...
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well, hopefully the guardrails will narrow tomorrow when the trial begins again with dave pecker on the stand. lisa rubin, brian stelter, no two better people to talk about this with. >>> still ahead tonight i'll talk with congresswoman ilhan omar about the massive protests. tomorrow morning the supreme court will finally hear arguments on the question donald trump hopes is his get out of jail free card. is he immune from prosecution for everything he did while he was president? that's next. for everything he did while he was president? that's next. these bills are crae has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. hi, i'm jason. i've lost 228 pounds on golo. ♪ i don't ever want to go back to wearing a 4xl shirt or not being able to climb up stairs without taking a break.
well, hopefully the guardrails will narrow tomorrow when the trial begins again with dave pecker on the stand. lisa rubin, brian stelter, no two better people to talk about this with. >>> still ahead tonight i'll talk with congresswoman ilhan omar about the massive protests. tomorrow morning the supreme court will finally hear arguments on the question donald trump hopes is his get out of jail free card. is he immune from prosecution for everything he did while he was president? that's...
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yet, he has been radio silent when it comes to david pecker . he is railing on michael: every day tomorrow and yesterday. what does that tell you about david pecker? >> it tells me one of two things. who else does donald trump never criticize? judge aileen cannon because he thinks she is still going to give him a solid in the documents case in florida. with respect to david pecker it is either because sometime he thinks david is going to do him a solid in his testimony come tomorrow. i think that's unlikely because pecker is under a non-prosecute agreement. if he starts saying good stuff he could be prosecuted. or, pecker knows where even more of trump's bodies are buried so he's a threat. he doesn't want to antagonize pecker but he also hasn't said anything bad about hope, so i think maybe he's trying to see who his true enemies are and who still may hold out and do a little something for the donald. >> harry, my colleague, john allen, wrote an interesting piece today for he said trump's legal team is spending an enormous amount of time discuss
yet, he has been radio silent when it comes to david pecker . he is railing on michael: every day tomorrow and yesterday. what does that tell you about david pecker? >> it tells me one of two things. who else does donald trump never criticize? judge aileen cannon because he thinks she is still going to give him a solid in the documents case in florida. with respect to david pecker it is either because sometime he thinks david is going to do him a solid in his testimony come tomorrow. i...
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when the trial begins again with david pecker on the stand. lisa and bryan, no two better people to talk about this with. thank you for your time. >>> still ahead tonight, i will talk to congresswoman ilhan omar about the protests in gaza. but first, tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. sharp, the supreme court will finally hear arguments on the question donald trump hopes is his get out of jail free card. is he immune from prosecution for everything he did while he was president? that's next. e he was president? that's next. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take
when the trial begins again with david pecker on the stand. lisa and bryan, no two better people to talk about this with. thank you for your time. >>> still ahead tonight, i will talk to congresswoman ilhan omar about the protests in gaza. but first, tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. sharp, the supreme court will finally hear arguments on the question donald trump hopes is his get out of jail free card. is he immune from prosecution for everything he did while he was president? that's...
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what does that tell you about pecker that trump mums the word? >> tells me one of two things. who else does donald trump never criticize? judge aileen cannon because he thinks she's going to do him a solid in the documents case in florida. it's because somehow he thinks david pecker is going to do him a solid in his testimony tomorrow. i think that unlikely. if he flips the script and starts saying good stuff for trump the prosecutors don't anticipate, pecker will be in trouble because he's going to be prosecuted. >> let's go to the or. >> the or is pecker knows where even more of trump's bodies are buried. >> bingo. >> he's a threat and he doesn't want to antagonize pecker, but he also hasn't said anything bad about hope hicks. i think maybe he's trying to see who his true enemies are and who still may hold out and do a little something for the donald. >> trump fears the pecker. harry, my colleague john allen wrote an interesting piece today where he said trump's legal team is spending an enormous amount of time discussing that donald trump shou
what does that tell you about pecker that trump mums the word? >> tells me one of two things. who else does donald trump never criticize? judge aileen cannon because he thinks she's going to do him a solid in the documents case in florida. it's because somehow he thinks david pecker is going to do him a solid in his testimony tomorrow. i think that unlikely. if he flips the script and starts saying good stuff for trump the prosecutors don't anticipate, pecker will be in trouble because...
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that is what is exactly the same with david pecker and the inquirer. this is about a financial relationship. they believe they have a fiduciary , they believe this is the responsibility they have to the shareholders, to keep the pro-trump propaganda going, to keep the viewers watching and then you will see on the air on fox when they interview voters, the voters are saying the exact same things jesse watters is saying. >> it is a feedback loop . from a legal perspective, this seems like terra incognito, to some degree. i was struck by last week when the jurors, multiple jurors were saying i am worried about my safety. judge juan merchan set i'm directing the press apply common sense and refrain from writing about anything that has to do, for example, with physical descriptions of the jurors. that is not necessary, it serves no purpose. he is asking the press and that included the mainstream press, frankly, is his ability to circumscribe the amount of information put out there as it concerns the press reduced to just request or is there anything legally
that is what is exactly the same with david pecker and the inquirer. this is about a financial relationship. they believe they have a fiduciary , they believe this is the responsibility they have to the shareholders, to keep the pro-trump propaganda going, to keep the viewers watching and then you will see on the air on fox when they interview voters, the voters are saying the exact same things jesse watters is saying. >> it is a feedback loop . from a legal perspective, this seems like...
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on the strand pecker said we would embellish. the tabloid went after ted cruz, as we covered through the week. cruz famously finished second only to trump in the primary there was a cover story that some might view as defamatory, cruz's father was somehow linked to the jfk assassination. i'm showing this to you as criminal evidence. i'm not showing this to you as true, in fairness to senator cruz. pecker testified in court that what you see on your screen was not only false, but they knew it was false from the start. in other words, sometimes you have something come out, it has to be corrected. this should have been corrected in advanced. it never should have run because they knew it was, quote, manufactured, according to the star witness himself. and trump used all this against cruz at the time, and cruz punched back. >> all i did is point out the fact that on the cover of the "national enquirer" there is a picture him and crazy lee harvey oswald having breakfast. now ted never denied that it was his father. instead he said dona
on the strand pecker said we would embellish. the tabloid went after ted cruz, as we covered through the week. cruz famously finished second only to trump in the primary there was a cover story that some might view as defamatory, cruz's father was somehow linked to the jfk assassination. i'm showing this to you as criminal evidence. i'm not showing this to you as true, in fairness to senator cruz. pecker testified in court that what you see on your screen was not only false, but they knew it...
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pecker. >> i think that's right on. i think pecker certainly comes off -- he introduced this whole scheme. that's giving us an introduction to what the juries are about to hear for the next six weeks. it is also someone that i think has a favorable view of trump and has been a longtime friend of trump. it's going to be interesting to see how trump's attorneys choose to cross him when they do, whether that be tomorrow or friday. sometime later this week. he is also coming off in a way that's quite grandfatherly. i think it's going to be interesting to see what they choose to approach him on, on cross examination. >> michael steele, i just kept thinking that this is a man who -- i'm not there to absorb the grandfatherly touches. he was the most eligible bachelor. he was never that. he was married. three times but still almost always married. it's going to be awkward to try to discredit him without also discrediting all of the lovely things he said about donald trump. >> yeah. it's one of those dynamics when you are lookin
pecker. >> i think that's right on. i think pecker certainly comes off -- he introduced this whole scheme. that's giving us an introduction to what the juries are about to hear for the next six weeks. it is also someone that i think has a favorable view of trump and has been a longtime friend of trump. it's going to be interesting to see how trump's attorneys choose to cross him when they do, whether that be tomorrow or friday. sometime later this week. he is also coming off in a way...
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and how will trump's attorneys push back against david pecker whose testimony has already shown the former president to be a willing participant in a scheme to skew the 2020 election. >>> but we start at the supreme court where for the first time since they overturned roe v. wade, justices are being forced to reckon with the by-product of that decision and rule on the abortion issue all over again. at the heart of the arguments, whether idaho's near total abortion ban should take precedence over federal law and block abortions. in situations where abortion would help stabilize pregnant patients undergoing a medical crisis. now, idaho's attorney says it should. the government disagreed. >> what idaho is doing is waiting for women to wait and deteriorate and suffer the lifelong health consequences with no possible upside for the fetus. it just stacks tragedy upon tragedy. >> and it can't be the -- you know, it's become transfer is the appropriate standard of care in idaho, but it can't be the right standard of care to force somebody onto a helicopter. >> this supreme court battle over aborti
and how will trump's attorneys push back against david pecker whose testimony has already shown the former president to be a willing participant in a scheme to skew the 2020 election. >>> but we start at the supreme court where for the first time since they overturned roe v. wade, justices are being forced to reckon with the by-product of that decision and rule on the abortion issue all over again. at the heart of the arguments, whether idaho's near total abortion ban should take...
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. >>> and david pecker detailing the way his old publication helped former president trump, how that could impact the hush money trial coming up next. imph moy netrial coming up next (vo) if you have graves' disease... ...and blurry vision, you need clear answers. people with graves' could also get thyroid eye disease, or t-e-d, which may need a different doctor. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com. tamra, izzy, and emma... they respond to emails with phone calls... and they don't 'circle back', they're already there. they wear business sneakers and pad their keyboards with something that makes their clickety-clacking... clickety-clackier. but no one loves logistics as much as they do. you need tamra, izzy, and emma. they need a retirement plan. work with principal so we can help you with a retirement and benefits plan that's right for your team. let our expertise round out yours. it's never a good time for migraine, especially when i'm on camera. that's why my go-to is nurtec odt. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodi
. >>> and david pecker detailing the way his old publication helped former president trump, how that could impact the hush money trial coming up next. imph moy netrial coming up next (vo) if you have graves' disease... ...and blurry vision, you need clear answers. people with graves' could also get thyroid eye disease, or t-e-d, which may need a different doctor. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com. tamra, izzy, and emma... they respond to emails with phone calls... and they...
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but when court resumes tomorrow morning, david pecker will be back on the witness stand. yesterday, he detailed the catch and kill agreement with trump and michael cohen to buy and bury unflattering stoies about trump during the 2016 presidential bid. with us now to talk more about this, "new york times" investigative recorder susan craig, who spent years covering trump's businesses and finances. she's also been in court every day of the trial. so, sue, let's talk about yesterday, how did pecker do and what were the highlights of his testimony? >> right, so he started in the morning, and he really took jurors through chronologically how things went. the highlight of the day talked a lot about it on air was that meeting at trump tower, where they came to this agreement where david pecker was the eyes and ears of the campaign, he would catch negative stories for trump, and pay for them, and not publish them, and then he would put out negative stories about donald trump's opponents. and it was incredible to hear just the details of this scheme. there was points, michael cohe
but when court resumes tomorrow morning, david pecker will be back on the witness stand. yesterday, he detailed the catch and kill agreement with trump and michael cohen to buy and bury unflattering stoies about trump during the 2016 presidential bid. with us now to talk more about this, "new york times" investigative recorder susan craig, who spent years covering trump's businesses and finances. she's also been in court every day of the trial. so, sue, let's talk about yesterday, how...
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as trump is signing them, pecker testifies he's simultaneously holding a conversation with pecker but also looking closely at the checks and signing them. so pecker definitely undermined blanche there, but i also want to distinguish between what i'll call the precursor to the crime and the crime itself. remember, what trump has been charged with here is 34 felony counts of falsification of business records. the conspiracy to throw the election is what makes that a felony, but the crimes itself is the falsification of the business records. david pecker's knowledge primarily pertains to that antecedent, the conspiracy. he wasn't around for the second part of the scheme. we're going to have to rely on other witnesses, other evidence, and largely michael cohen and business records to get to the evidence that proves that second part of the criminal activity that is necessary here. yes, the conspiracy is necessary to make it a felony, but first yaw got to find that trump actually intended to and knew that he was participating in falsification of business records. >> i want to play something
as trump is signing them, pecker testifies he's simultaneously holding a conversation with pecker but also looking closely at the checks and signing them. so pecker definitely undermined blanche there, but i also want to distinguish between what i'll call the precursor to the crime and the crime itself. remember, what trump has been charged with here is 34 felony counts of falsification of business records. the conspiracy to throw the election is what makes that a felony, but the crimes itself...
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. >> david pecker. the first witness in the new york case. >> all right, good morning, everybody. welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, april 24th. along with willie and me we have a member of the "the new york times" editorial board maya and sam stein. our top story has to do with pecker. >> i think you're enjoying saying his name. testimony in donald trump's hush money criminal trial is scheduled to resume tomorrow after several key developments in court yesterday. first, the judge held a hearing at the start of tuesday's proceedings on whether the former president had violated his gag order. prosecutors have asked the judge to fine him $1,000 for each violation. trump's attorney said he hasn't violated the order. he was, quote, being careful about complying with the order. but the judge expressed extreme frustration with that argument, telling his attorney saying, quote, losing all credibility with the court. any violation of the gag order in articles he repost to social media is unintentional. >
. >> david pecker. the first witness in the new york case. >> all right, good morning, everybody. welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, april 24th. along with willie and me we have a member of the "the new york times" editorial board maya and sam stein. our top story has to do with pecker. >> i think you're enjoying saying his name. testimony in donald trump's hush money criminal trial is scheduled to resume tomorrow after several key developments in...
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david pecker is who he is. he has no problems saying that he was engaged in checkbook journalism, and, yes, he was publishing some outrageous stories, you know, and negative stories and untrue stories. so that's what he did in charge of the company that was the parent company of the national enquirer. what you want to do is plant reasonable doubt in jurors mind and distance donald trump away from pecker and cohen. it's going to be hard because pecker did testify he's known donald trump for years, and he knew him to be detailed oriented and almost a micromanager. that's hard to distance someone. if you're a micromanager and you're detail oriented, it's hard to say you are hands off. so you can expect them to do that. you can also expect them to try with mr. pecker to talk about other stories, negative stories and falsehoods that were published not at the behest of donald trump but had nothing to do with donald trump. he was in charge of the company for years. >> yeah, i was just going to say the simplest way to
david pecker is who he is. he has no problems saying that he was engaged in checkbook journalism, and, yes, he was publishing some outrageous stories, you know, and negative stories and untrue stories. so that's what he did in charge of the company that was the parent company of the national enquirer. what you want to do is plant reasonable doubt in jurors mind and distance donald trump away from pecker and cohen. it's going to be hard because pecker did testify he's known donald trump for...
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>> of david pecker? >> yeah. >> i think they're going to do everything they can to showhe hs a liar, what he's saying is not only ill-informed but he's doing it because he got a non pros cushion agreement. theno u.s. attorney's office ha forced a his hand, forced him there today, and he's trying to cover his bases by lying. poke holes in the case one witness at a time, and that's what they're going to be doing with david pecker probably starting tomorrow or the day after. >> well, we shall see. listen, we may know this story quite nowell, at least the broa contours of atit, but when it comes down to the actual trial, there is so much to dig into. thank you so much for your time tonight. duncan, i think we have lassoed you inav for one more block, so please stay right there. coming up at long last congress votes to send aid toon ukraine. but don't ask anyone in the republican party if this means the debate is settled. and coming up as we await judge merchan's ruling on the gag order prosecutors are sugges
>> of david pecker? >> yeah. >> i think they're going to do everything they can to showhe hs a liar, what he's saying is not only ill-informed but he's doing it because he got a non pros cushion agreement. theno u.s. attorney's office ha forced a his hand, forced him there today, and he's trying to cover his bases by lying. poke holes in the case one witness at a time, and that's what they're going to be doing with david pecker probably starting tomorrow or the day after....
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without david peckere, there is no case. he is the con dude between donald trump and the national inquirer. this whole scheme rises and falls through michael cohen to donald trump and he is at the center of it and in a way, his testimony is almost blaise. we were doing this and that. but he was, the national enquirer was an arm of the trump campaign and that comes out clearly in the testimony. this doorman had an nda. david is the first witness. the most important witness. what questions do you have for him, given how thorough. it is also fairly sensational. he is so matter of fact. what would your sort of strategies be if you are trump's defense? >> a large part of this is he had immunity. what are you going to do? you are going to lie. is really the hub here and everything is spoke off of him. he is so critical to the case. i don't know if he is the center of the case. the principle of what he is saying is accurate. without him, cohen doesn't have the credibility. he needs he is so critical. i think you are starting with t
without david peckere, there is no case. he is the con dude between donald trump and the national inquirer. this whole scheme rises and falls through michael cohen to donald trump and he is at the center of it and in a way, his testimony is almost blaise. we were doing this and that. but he was, the national enquirer was an arm of the trump campaign and that comes out clearly in the testimony. this doorman had an nda. david is the first witness. the most important witness. what questions do you...
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david-pecker, i would describe mr. trump is very knowledgeable. i would describe him as a very detail-oriented, i would describe him as an almost, as a micromanager from what i saw, that he looked at every all of the aspects of whatever the issue was. neal katyal , andrew weissman, adam klasfeld, back with us. he's not a micromanager. he doesn't know who is putting what memos on what checks. >> yes, this is the standard defense when you have a leader on trial into the mechanics of the crime, it is a defense in an organized crime case, i was not on the scene, it's the defense, saying i don't know what the paperwork was, it is a standard argument that is made. of course it doesn't help that this is a small family business. we are not talking about enron, or an organized crime family, although there are some analogies that could be made. it's small. he couldn't possibly know will be a tough one given how small the group is, but testimony from a long-time friend who is saying positive things about him, that he is micromanager, is to get evidence for y
david-pecker, i would describe mr. trump is very knowledgeable. i would describe him as a very detail-oriented, i would describe him as an almost, as a micromanager from what i saw, that he looked at every all of the aspects of whatever the issue was. neal katyal , andrew weissman, adam klasfeld, back with us. he's not a micromanager. he doesn't know who is putting what memos on what checks. >> yes, this is the standard defense when you have a leader on trial into the mechanics of the...
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>> of david-pecker? i think they are going to do everything they can to show he is a liar, that what he is saying is not only ill- informed, but he got a nonprosecution agreement, that his hand was forced, and he's trying to cover his basis by lying. it's really the only move they have. poke holes in the case, one witness at a time, and that's what they will be doing with david-pecker starting tomorrow or the day after. >> we shall see. i mean listen, we may know this story quite well, at least the broad contours of it, but when it comes to the trial, there is so much to dig in. jeremy, duncan, thank you. i think we have less of you in for one more block. so please stay right there. >>> coming up, congress, aid to ukraine, but don't ask anyone in the republican party if this means the debate is settled. >>> as we await a judge order on a gag ruling, maybe trump wants to go to prison, they suggest. more on that, next. millions of children are fighting to survive due to inequality, conflict, poverty and th
>> of david-pecker? i think they are going to do everything they can to show he is a liar, that what he is saying is not only ill- informed, but he got a nonprosecution agreement, that his hand was forced, and he's trying to cover his basis by lying. it's really the only move they have. poke holes in the case, one witness at a time, and that's what they will be doing with david-pecker starting tomorrow or the day after. >> we shall see. i mean listen, we may know this story quite...
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this idea of friends of pecker, fops, a friend of pecker, so trump gets a free ride. it is nothing to do with journalism. in fact, david pecker is revealing himself not to be a news man. he's an advertiser, a marketering, and his product was donald trump. >> when he gave him something about an estimate of $3 million a month of free advertising. he created a magazine that was a quarterly magazine that's literally just about donald trump. he was talking about it in these weird reverential terms. he was asked what can you do to help the campaign? he's oh, i know what i can do. we're going to find all these negative stories. >> your, quote, eyes and ears. and michael cohen was the go between. to your point, this is setting up the cohen testimony. >> how is that a crime? that's what the prosecutor has to prove. catch and kill is unseemly, gross, but it's not illegal. >> that's why the new york statute that was previewed previously in the motions that were dealt with prior to this case surviving the motions to dismiss, because you know, this is important. trials don't just
this idea of friends of pecker, fops, a friend of pecker, so trump gets a free ride. it is nothing to do with journalism. in fact, david pecker is revealing himself not to be a news man. he's an advertiser, a marketering, and his product was donald trump. >> when he gave him something about an estimate of $3 million a month of free advertising. he created a magazine that was a quarterly magazine that's literally just about donald trump. he was talking about it in these weird reverential...
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with more testimony from david pecker. joining us now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, mia wylie, former civil attorney in new york, and hugo, covering washington and all things donald trump. joyce, i want to start with you. we've talked often about trying cases. when you have your case in chief, that primacy is how you do this. you start and end strong when it comes to the presentation of your witnesses. was it smart for the prosecution to start with david pecker thus far? >> well, it was smart, katie, and i am reminded that it was you who first said that you thought david pecker would be a great kickoff witness. i think that's the case, right? this is someone who doesn't have the baggage of a michael cohen, and who tells the origin story. he has now walked us through the election interference conspiracy. this is now patch and kill to elect trump. that's the case that the prosecution will put on. they've done a great job of giving the jury sort of the basics, the land marks and the road map that they'll move ahead on
with more testimony from david pecker. joining us now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, mia wylie, former civil attorney in new york, and hugo, covering washington and all things donald trump. joyce, i want to start with you. we've talked often about trying cases. when you have your case in chief, that primacy is how you do this. you start and end strong when it comes to the presentation of your witnesses. was it smart for the prosecution to start with david pecker thus far? >> well,...
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pecker, increase. how often were you in touch with michael cohen after trump announced his candidacy? pecker, maybe daily. one of the most interesting things that happens today with pecker is what's been public facing trump, cohen, stormy, macdougal. what happened today was trump, pecker, and everybody else. i mean, the chart of the hush money election interference, corporate criminal enterprise totally changed. >> and you really see the impact of pecker and the "national enquirer" and how it plays into kind of the center hub of media, politics, consumerism, and the fact that he's -- obviously, there's legal decisions, but it's a shame. because there was a real, real -- he was -- he was more of a fiction than michael cohen in certain ways. >> and more influential. what dawned on me, i wondered from the outside, pomeranz's book, you wonder what bragg did with the time between the first team that looks at the facts and the charging of trump. clearly what they did, with 22 meetings with michael cohen, the
pecker, increase. how often were you in touch with michael cohen after trump announced his candidacy? pecker, maybe daily. one of the most interesting things that happens today with pecker is what's been public facing trump, cohen, stormy, macdougal. what happened today was trump, pecker, and everybody else. i mean, the chart of the hush money election interference, corporate criminal enterprise totally changed. >> and you really see the impact of pecker and the "national...
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pecker. that's the jury like? what's donald trump like in that room? >> well, i would say everybody is really attentive today, which hasn't always as you know been the case. donald trump's attention kind of fluctuates. he has come in on days and been extraordinarily bored. but when the subject is donald trump and donald trump directly, he stands at attention and he was very curious to hear how david pecker would describe his relationship. i would say his expression for the most part was fairly even. he was neither snarling at pecker as he sometimes does when he heads down the aisle and exits the courtroom and sees the press assembled, but he wasn't exactly friendly. my best recollection of the interaction was when pecker came into the courtroom yesterday and donald trump was almost like leaning around the table so he could get as close a look at david pecker's face as he could. it was as if he were daring pecker, you knew me for decades. make eye contact with me now. and pecker didn't seem to
pecker. that's the jury like? what's donald trump like in that room? >> well, i would say everybody is really attentive today, which hasn't always as you know been the case. donald trump's attention kind of fluctuates. he has come in on days and been extraordinarily bored. but when the subject is donald trump and donald trump directly, he stands at attention and he was very curious to hear how david pecker would describe his relationship. i would say his expression for the most part was...
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>> david pecker? >> yeah. >> i felt there were some partings of what he was saying were credible, but he was definitely more inclined to help the former president. >> definitely sounded pro trump throughout his entire thing. >> what was it he said or what was it about his demeanor, hope, that made you think he wanted to help donald trump? >> throughout his entire interview basically, he was talking a lot about, oh, yes, they were, we were referring to the boss, mr. trump. and lots of pro trump language throughout his entire argument. and social studies class, we learn a lot about bias and bias in the media and bias in all different sorts of stories. so it was very interesting to hear how someone actually in court was showing the same bias that we've seen in the media sometimes. >> testimony, also -- >> go ahead, owen. sorry. >> okay. his testimony also reflected how crucial this whole case michael cohen is and will be when he takes the stand in a few weeks. >> i have to ask you both very quickly, what
>> david pecker? >> yeah. >> i felt there were some partings of what he was saying were credible, but he was definitely more inclined to help the former president. >> definitely sounded pro trump throughout his entire thing. >> what was it he said or what was it about his demeanor, hope, that made you think he wanted to help donald trump? >> throughout his entire interview basically, he was talking a lot about, oh, yes, they were, we were referring to the...
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pecker. and when he says, for instance, that trump was detail oriented or micromanager, how would he know that? he would know that because they have spent so much time together. he would know that because they have discussed business together. so, you're laying the foundation in many ways, and, by the way, you're not just doing it through mr. pecker. he's, you know, witness number one on days number one and two. they're going to be many more witnesses, and they're going -- the prosecutors are going to ask all the witnesses how do you know the things that you say you know? what is the basis for it. all of that foundational testimony tells the jury in essence, you can trust the government's case. >> so, catherine, the prosecution has been drilling down on alleged conspiracy. hatch, between these three guys that now infamous trump tower meeting, and, vaughn talked about this, as part of that, they allege pecker agreed to be the eyes and ears of the campaign. the eyes and ears. publish flattering
pecker. and when he says, for instance, that trump was detail oriented or micromanager, how would he know that? he would know that because they have spent so much time together. he would know that because they have discussed business together. so, you're laying the foundation in many ways, and, by the way, you're not just doing it through mr. pecker. he's, you know, witness number one on days number one and two. they're going to be many more witnesses, and they're going -- the prosecutors are...
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pecker responds yes. for the first time in the public record, we're getting david pecker corroborating what michael cohen for years has now articulated about that meeting. to note, hope hicks could well be a witness. pecker has testified hope hicks was in and out of this meeting. so we could very well get more corroborating testimony as it pertains to that exact meeting in trump tower in august of 2015. >> so chuck, is this the beginning of trying to build up the credibility of michael cohen? who was obviously a flawed witness. a convicted admitted perjurer. >> building up mr. cohen's credibility, andrea, might be a long walk through dry sand. he's a criminal and a liar, but that doesn't mean he's not telling the truth here at trial. so what you're really trying to do is corroborate him. and by the way, i have said this before, in many years as a prosecutor, i wish all of my witnesses were nuns and librarians but they're not the ones who are around when crimes are committed. this may sound trite and it ma
pecker responds yes. for the first time in the public record, we're getting david pecker corroborating what michael cohen for years has now articulated about that meeting. to note, hope hicks could well be a witness. pecker has testified hope hicks was in and out of this meeting. so we could very well get more corroborating testimony as it pertains to that exact meeting in trump tower in august of 2015. >> so chuck, is this the beginning of trying to build up the credibility of michael...
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was paying trump money, and it shows trump trusts pecker, so when trump goes to pecker, and this testimony will come out, about covering up various sorted issues that he thinks will interfere with the election, pecker is somebody he could count on. we will see what will develop in the testimony. i cannot imagine it will end today and will probably go on until tomorrow. >> what about this whole gag order and the issues that have been brought up to the court this morning, the judge apparently has not ruled on that, but how do you see that? >> it's interesting, josÉ. every judge that i have spoken to has said they would not lock trump up. judges are very reluctant to do that, but he will reach a point where if trump continues to violate the gag order and it certainly appears he did violate the gag order, he will have to do something. as chuck rosenberg said earlier, sequestering the jury is a difficult thing because it's harmful to a juror. sometimes it facilitates a quicker verdict because the jurors just want to go home. so marchand will have to do something, and it's something he could tr
was paying trump money, and it shows trump trusts pecker, so when trump goes to pecker, and this testimony will come out, about covering up various sorted issues that he thinks will interfere with the election, pecker is somebody he could count on. we will see what will develop in the testimony. i cannot imagine it will end today and will probably go on until tomorrow. >> what about this whole gag order and the issues that have been brought up to the court this morning, the judge...
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david pecker will be back. he spoke for about 30 minutes or so in testimony yesterday after those opening statements. anything that stuck out to you and just how important is he to this case? >> david pecker may in fact be the people's star witness and not michael cohen. david pecker may ultimately be a better witness for a few different reasons. number one, he has some baggage, but he doesn't have the baggage of a michael cohen. number two, he's going to lay the foundation of this pre-existing relationship and this catch and kill arrangement. and that's going to match up to a lot of documents that the state is going to introduce. number three, he was a friend of donald trump's. so his testimony may be more credible for that reason. he may be testifying about something we're not anticipating, and it might be about a direct conversation with donald trump, because, remember, that there were these entries in business records can be shown from the records with the state, with the people need to show is donald trump
david pecker will be back. he spoke for about 30 minutes or so in testimony yesterday after those opening statements. anything that stuck out to you and just how important is he to this case? >> david pecker may in fact be the people's star witness and not michael cohen. david pecker may ultimately be a better witness for a few different reasons. number one, he has some baggage, but he doesn't have the baggage of a michael cohen. number two, he's going to lay the foundation of this...
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the prosecution called pecker as the first witness. the former chairman and ceo of american media incorporated explained his publications had practiced checkbook journalism, where they paid thousands of dollars for stories. the publications would purchase stories to prevent them from being published by other outlets and bury them. pecker also testified trump met with him after the 2016 election to thank him for being the campaign's, quote, eyes and ears, scooping up information that could be harmful to trump and reporting it back to michael cohen. pecker is expected to resume his testimony later this morning. let's bring in former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. and former attorney and msnbc contributor, chuck rosenberg. good morning to you both. great to have you with us. lisa, you were in the overflow floor yesterday watching all this, kind of keeping track of donald trump's facial gestures, perhaps nodding off. what was your big takeaway from yesterday, day one. >> the big takeaway is this is a crime about falsif
the prosecution called pecker as the first witness. the former chairman and ceo of american media incorporated explained his publications had practiced checkbook journalism, where they paid thousands of dollars for stories. the publications would purchase stories to prevent them from being published by other outlets and bury them. pecker also testified trump met with him after the 2016 election to thank him for being the campaign's, quote, eyes and ears, scooping up information that could be...